Budget friendly Bosch EV14 Injectors??
 

I was just browsing eBay for a used set of ID injectors, and I came across this listing.

New Bosch EV14 80lb 850cc Fuel Injector High Resistance USCAR Connector

Thoughts? The title has all the right key words but looks too good to be true.

:facepalm:

Aww..so no?

It's not the worst "new idea" I guess.
IMO not worth the hassle or the risk, but I guess if you're willing to pinch every single last penny....

After further investigation, I came across your post to refer to sturovo's thread on EV14s.

I came across this during my search:

https://eficalibrator.files.wordpres...or-article.pdf

http://wpdev.injectordynamics.com/wp...ingDrilled.pdf

You're right. The risk isn't worth the hassle/risk. I will be sticking with IDs.

:likecat: for researching and cross-linking.

:likecat:

I think most of the regulars and I would basically agree that, for budget and/or smaller size fueling needs, FF is pretty much the go-to.
Or just go with ID and never look back.

One of the guys I'm tuning locally just recently learned the REALLY HARD and REALLY EXPENSIVE way that the two things you never wanna cheap out on is injectors and ecu

Out of curiosity, how do you know that those are redrilled?

Larger injectors that we all see are reworked (redrilled/new nozzle/etc.). The differences are the testing method and validation of new spray pattern.

http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/medi...5993867pdf.pdf

I took a quick glance but I didn't see any that flowed at 850cc

it's like comparing a TSE manifold to a tacotaco: both might "work", but the quality/design/engineering/etc could not possibly be any more different

All pump gas applications: FF640s
E85 up to 425whp: ID1050x
E85 up to "lol" whp: ID1300x

we ran outa fuel on colipto's FF's on only 20psi* on pump

*but he may very well have some sort of issue with his setup.

We had FFs on a 2860 car yesterday showing tons of headroom in duty cycle at 240kpa.

I really don't think this was the case.

Bytevenom suggested that the OEM FPR may be restricting the increased flow pressure. Could there be any truth to that? I honestly doubt he's maxing them out at the HP that he's running.

plenty of guys running oem fpr to well over 300
I agree that it's most likely a problem with something on his car, maybe clogged something or pump is faulty. I dunno. all I know is we maxed them out lol

If I recall correctly from my tuner, I was around 80%(mid-high) duty cycle with E85 on a 2560r at 15psi, and this is with FF610s @ 4bar.

The FPR is after the injectors, so it can't restrict flow to the injectors.

Ah okay. Thanks for learning me.

That said, what's going on in his log is kinda perplexing...

Stock pump?

​​​​​​​He's running 93 and an aftermarket pump. Should have way more headroom than you left, ya know?

FF640s should be capable of 300whp without any trouble at >43psi DFP. If you experience otherwise, your car is broken

DW200, I could be recalling incorrectly. Its been some time since I got it tuned.

I see 108% DC in my logs in fifth gear with my 640's on a dw200 pump I got from Andrew. NB stock returnless. Pump 93 octane and 2871r.

Just another data point since we are sharing.

Sure, if you only want to run 300rwhp. :)

(peak duty cycle of 64% on my non-X id1000s at 340)

I think there's something wrong with the pump on the car in question. IME, restrictive NB factory regulators result in fuel pressures that are way too high/unregulated at idle (thus varying with system voltage and stuff like that), they actually work fine at WOT where the injectors are dumping enough fuel that the regulator can handle what's left.

--Ian

No need for additional data, folks. It's really simple math. Injectors flow X fuel, car makes Y power at Z air fuel ratio. If your setup deviates from the math in any meaningful way, you have a pump/filter/FPR issue.

No, that's not what I said. What I said is that the FPR is not increasing fuel pressure enough once the engine reaches boost. Once you hit 20PSI, the FPR isn't raising fuel rail pressure by 20 PSI to account for the increase in manifold pressure. Thus effectively lowering the capacity of the injectors.

I have to find the thread where this was discussed, but my main take away was that the stock FPR doesn't listen to boost.

Okay found the info. https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=503389

So my theory is true for NBs, not NAs.

NB stock returnless should be a higher static fuel pressure ~60 vs what most people rate injectors by at mid 40s. This makes the injectors more like 700cc on our setups and if you aren't configured like that in MS you'll see inflated duty cycles despite not really being there (unless my old rusty logic is way off).

Yes, but at his peak boost levels, his actual pressure at injector tip is more like 37psi.

Yes, high boost NB setups really need a referenced FPR.

--Ian

The car in question (colipto), is an NA8. So, it should be manifold referenced.

It seems that there is discussion of two cars in this thread, one NA and one NB. :)

--Ian

please disregard my comments about colipto's car. they're irrelevant since we all know he's got some other fueling issue

Good point, wasn't taking into account the down tick in pressure.

More to the point, the NB FPR doesn't increase the fuel pressure at all with boost. As you go beyond 16.5psi of boost on a stock NB fuel system, you will start to rapidly run out of fuel as you try to make more power with less and less DFP (differential fuel pressure, the difference between the rail and manifold pressures).

NAs can run more boost on the stock FPR because they have a 1:1 reference. NBs need something like a Fuelab 535 and a manifold reference if they want to run more than 16.5psi without excessively sized injectors (and even then, it's not advisable). My own high-boost NB runs a Fuelab 535, 60psi base, with a manifold reference.

Having said all of that, most decent setups can flirt with 280-300whp by the time you are at 17psi, so my original general statement still applies in most cases: If you max the injectors before 300whp, something else is wrong.

MS does not care what req.fuel says when calculating injector DC%. It's purely a calculation of commanded pulsewidth vs RPM (or more specifically, engine cycle time). If you double req.fuel and halve the VE table to keep pulsewdiths the same, DC% won't move. 108% means the ECU is commanding more duty cycle than there is time available (engine cycle time - dead time = time available), which is a great way to lock an injector open and wreck a bunch of stuff, so definitely don't do that.

I've posted this before but worth mentioning in this discussion. I installed a fuel pressure sending unit and found that the factory NB FPR can't cope with more than ~190 to 200 LP/hr, I was seeing 6 to 10 psi above set pressure with a 255 walbro. The pressure was also all over the place until you opened up the injectors enough to get it down to the 60 psi set pressure.

With a 190 I see about a 5 psi drop from 60 Psi at ~250 HP worth of fuel flow, but is a smooth consistent drop and I've tuned around it. I chock this up to pumping losses from the regulator to the rail.

Return style fuel systems are needed at much past 250hp in my humble opinion.