1.8l turbo ?'s
02-16-2009, 05:55 AM
#1
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1.8l turbo ?'s
Hello all,
I currently own a 1990 miata with a pretty worn out 1.6l in it. I have built a 1.8l MSM motor i plan on swapping in the car and doing a turbo set-up. I am not shooting for a particular HP #, i just want a good, reliable set-up that i can maybe turn the boost up for some track-day fun.
First off, i will be working a budget and doing a lot of custom work so pre-fabbed kits probably arent going to work for me. Also, I am coming from the Honda world and this is my first Miata build. However the MSM motor i have came out of my dads 04 MSM when he spun a bearing. I have some good experience with turbo miata's but never started from scratch and i have a few questions.
Car: 1990 Miata
Motor: 2004 MSM 1.8l turbo
Bottom End: Pauter H-beam Rods, Weisco 9.0:1 pistons. 1mm overbore, micropolished crank, all ARP fasteners.
Top End: STOCK - MSM has 262 turbo profile cams from factory
Tans: STOCK 5 Spd (for now)
I have been searching hard for a few days now with minimal results for answers to my questions.
1. What is a good turbo/manifold set-up for 275+ HP? and where can i find them? A t3/t4 style turbo and log manifold will not get me where i need to be. I have most of the stock MSM stock turbo set-up as well but i know that will not get me where i need to be. My dads MSM is making 250whp on stock turbo with HYDRA. Its not efiecient enough to make much more.
2. Parts are hard to find to newb to the Miata parts world. I am looking for oil pump alternatives. This car is going to see quite a bit of track time and wanted to see what options there are for performance pumps or oil pan baffles.
3. What ECU/tuning set-up offers the best potential for swapped cars (1990)? Is it better to do a piggy back sytem and EMB or SAFC?
Sorry for the long post, just wanted to give yall as much info as i could. Thank you in advance for any responses. This should be fun.
I currently own a 1990 miata with a pretty worn out 1.6l in it. I have built a 1.8l MSM motor i plan on swapping in the car and doing a turbo set-up. I am not shooting for a particular HP #, i just want a good, reliable set-up that i can maybe turn the boost up for some track-day fun.
First off, i will be working a budget and doing a lot of custom work so pre-fabbed kits probably arent going to work for me. Also, I am coming from the Honda world and this is my first Miata build. However the MSM motor i have came out of my dads 04 MSM when he spun a bearing. I have some good experience with turbo miata's but never started from scratch and i have a few questions.
Car: 1990 Miata
Motor: 2004 MSM 1.8l turbo
Bottom End: Pauter H-beam Rods, Weisco 9.0:1 pistons. 1mm overbore, micropolished crank, all ARP fasteners.
Top End: STOCK - MSM has 262 turbo profile cams from factory
Tans: STOCK 5 Spd (for now)
I have been searching hard for a few days now with minimal results for answers to my questions.
1. What is a good turbo/manifold set-up for 275+ HP? and where can i find them? A t3/t4 style turbo and log manifold will not get me where i need to be. I have most of the stock MSM stock turbo set-up as well but i know that will not get me where i need to be. My dads MSM is making 250whp on stock turbo with HYDRA. Its not efiecient enough to make much more.
2. Parts are hard to find to newb to the Miata parts world. I am looking for oil pump alternatives. This car is going to see quite a bit of track time and wanted to see what options there are for performance pumps or oil pan baffles.
3. What ECU/tuning set-up offers the best potential for swapped cars (1990)? Is it better to do a piggy back sytem and EMB or SAFC?
Sorry for the long post, just wanted to give yall as much info as i could. Thank you in advance for any responses. This should be fun.
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02-16-2009, 08:27 AM
#5
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A stock msm turbo might get you 250HP but not 250WHP. Big difference. Which are you looking for 275+ WHP or HP?
There is a great deal in the FS section that I'm sure you saw in your days of searching. You know the one I'm talking about. And it will give you a chance at 300WHP. But you've probably already checked out the compressor maps on it and looked at the threads where the seller talked about his build and how much power he was making. You probably also saw the thread on his spool data as well. I'm a big fan of his "scary clown" avatar. What do you think?
There is a great deal in the FS section that I'm sure you saw in your days of searching. You know the one I'm talking about. And it will give you a chance at 300WHP. But you've probably already checked out the compressor maps on it and looked at the threads where the seller talked about his build and how much power he was making. You probably also saw the thread on his spool data as well. I'm a big fan of his "scary clown" avatar. What do you think?
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02-16-2009, 08:48 AM
#6
Considering 60%+ of the members here make your horsepower goals, the answers should be pretty easy to come by.
If you're fabricating, and don't plan on buying a kit, I say the best bet is to find THE turbo for your goals, and build around it. For most common turbo flanges you can easily find a manifold, and fab your own downpipe.
"THE turbo" means the one that is capable of your (rw?)hp goals, with a little head room. The important part here is not that the turbo can handle the PR you're looking for, but can do so at the volumetric flow rate your motor operates at (a little different between 1.6L and 1.8L, more difference if you did valve(spring) work and plan on winding that sucker to 8K rpm).
Some small turbos can handle a certain level of boost all the way to redline while staying in their optimum efficiency range, while upping the boost just a few small psi will put them off the map. You don't want this, especially since you will undoubtedly up the boost as soon as you learn the "credit card" movements of the right foot needed to keep the power under control.
Your post is kinda vague, despite it's lack of brevity, so I'm not real sure what you're looking for, and can't give any definite links or pointers. Here is a try though:
1. Pick a turbo based on compressor flow maps. I would imagine you are looking for something larger than a 2560 judging by horsepower numbers alone, but if your real intent is just "something faster and reliable," a similar sizze turbo should do.
2. Find as many cheap supporting parts as you can. Sure you can fab, but unless you're doing it for some specific purpose (power, reliabilty) that is not seen in readily available parts, why do so? It seems that manifolds almost always bolt up, and can be found reasonably priced, and often used. Downpipes aren't the same category. They often don't bolt up in every situation, and are equally or more expensive as manifolds. I would consider an MSM swap into a '90 one of those "hard to order a bolt-on for" situations.
3. Start fabbin'. Make everything else you feel like. Downpipe, intercooler plumbing etc.
Or you could just ignore the majority of this post, make life cheap and easy, and check out JayLs setup for sale.
EDIT: Either you were the guy that bought it, or you've already missed out. Good luck.
If you're fabricating, and don't plan on buying a kit, I say the best bet is to find THE turbo for your goals, and build around it. For most common turbo flanges you can easily find a manifold, and fab your own downpipe.
"THE turbo" means the one that is capable of your (rw?)hp goals, with a little head room. The important part here is not that the turbo can handle the PR you're looking for, but can do so at the volumetric flow rate your motor operates at (a little different between 1.6L and 1.8L, more difference if you did valve(spring) work and plan on winding that sucker to 8K rpm).
Some small turbos can handle a certain level of boost all the way to redline while staying in their optimum efficiency range, while upping the boost just a few small psi will put them off the map. You don't want this, especially since you will undoubtedly up the boost as soon as you learn the "credit card" movements of the right foot needed to keep the power under control.
Your post is kinda vague, despite it's lack of brevity, so I'm not real sure what you're looking for, and can't give any definite links or pointers. Here is a try though:
1. Pick a turbo based on compressor flow maps. I would imagine you are looking for something larger than a 2560 judging by horsepower numbers alone, but if your real intent is just "something faster and reliable," a similar sizze turbo should do.
2. Find as many cheap supporting parts as you can. Sure you can fab, but unless you're doing it for some specific purpose (power, reliabilty) that is not seen in readily available parts, why do so? It seems that manifolds almost always bolt up, and can be found reasonably priced, and often used. Downpipes aren't the same category. They often don't bolt up in every situation, and are equally or more expensive as manifolds. I would consider an MSM swap into a '90 one of those "hard to order a bolt-on for" situations.
3. Start fabbin'. Make everything else you feel like. Downpipe, intercooler plumbing etc.
Or you could just ignore the majority of this post, make life cheap and easy, and check out JayLs setup for sale.
EDIT: Either you were the guy that bought it, or you've already missed out. Good luck.
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02-16-2009, 08:51 AM
#7
Im having a real hard time believeing that you couldn't find what people are using for 275+ whp. And maybe a t3/t4 style turbo wont get you there but you can certainly do it with a log manifold. Look up PatsMx5.
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02-16-2009, 01:54 PM
#9
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A stock msm turbo might get you 250HP but not 250WHP. Big difference. Which are you looking for 275+ WHP or HP?
There is a great deal in the FS section that I'm sure you saw in your days of searching. You know the one I'm talking about. And it will give you a chance at 300WHP. But you've probably already checked out the compressor maps on it and looked at the threads where the seller talked about his build and how much power he was making. You probably also saw the thread on his spool data as well. I'm a big fan of his "scary clown" avatar. What do you think?
There is a great deal in the FS section that I'm sure you saw in your days of searching. You know the one I'm talking about. And it will give you a chance at 300WHP. But you've probably already checked out the compressor maps on it and looked at the threads where the seller talked about his build and how much power he was making. You probably also saw the thread on his spool data as well. I'm a big fan of his "scary clown" avatar. What do you think?
Thread master please lock this thread because will obvioulsy be a waste of time. Your posters need to get a life and want to help people. I thought thas what this was for. Peace.
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02-16-2009, 01:59 PM
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02-16-2009, 02:03 PM
#11
Yeah, cause i want to jump right into for sale threads without much knowledge of what im looking for. You guys are absolutely the reason forums are becoming a waste. I asked specific questions to info i couldnt find answers too but yet you all are still haters to anyone who tries to ask a question.
Thread master please lock this thread because will obvioulsy be a waste of time. Your posters need to get a life and want to help people. I thought thas what this was for. Peace.
Thread master please lock this thread because will obvioulsy be a waste of time. Your posters need to get a life and want to help people. I thought thas what this was for. Peace.
Most newbs come here wanting 275, or 300, or more hp and then they figure out that's a little more than they realized. I feel like helping you not because you've searched a lot, or done a bunch of research, but because you remind me of myself about a year ago. I knew I wanted to go straight to 300whp and have headroom for more. So I wanted to build a turbo setup accordingly. And I did.
You can to, but it takes a lot of learning on your behalf. Most here can't tell you what to run. It's really up to you. I can tell you a few different combinations that would "work", but which one is right for you depends on your goals for the car. Will this be a track car, daily driver, 1/4 mile machine, auto-x beast, or what?
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02-16-2009, 02:23 PM
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Dude, chill out for a sec. This forum is a bit harsh to newbs, but it really is the best turbo miata site you'll find. Take the criticisms in stride and hang in there.
Most newbs come here wanting 275, or 300, or more hp and then they figure out that's a little more than they realized. I feel like helping you not because you've searched a lot, or done a bunch of research, but because you remind me of myself about a year ago. I knew I wanted to go straight to 300whp and have headroom for more. So I wanted to build a turbo setup accordingly. And I did.
You can to, but it takes a lot of learning on your behalf. Most here can't tell you what to run. It's really up to you. I can tell you a few different combinations that would "work", but which one is right for you depends on your goals for the car. Will this be a track car, daily driver, 1/4 mile machine, auto-x beast, or what?
Most newbs come here wanting 275, or 300, or more hp and then they figure out that's a little more than they realized. I feel like helping you not because you've searched a lot, or done a bunch of research, but because you remind me of myself about a year ago. I knew I wanted to go straight to 300whp and have headroom for more. So I wanted to build a turbo setup accordingly. And I did.
You can to, but it takes a lot of learning on your behalf. Most here can't tell you what to run. It's really up to you. I can tell you a few different combinations that would "work", but which one is right for you depends on your goals for the car. Will this be a track car, daily driver, 1/4 mile machine, auto-x beast, or what?
The car already is an auto-x beast, haha. I beat my dads 250whpMSM all day at the last event. But ultimately it will be a track car. I got a full spec miata roll cage going in as-well from goodwin racing.
I dont want to set power goals becasue i hate being dissapointed. Been there, done that. I have done some work to the bottom end and i know it can handle some power after i do some more head work. I want consertively 275whp with the ability to grow as i do as a driver. My dads car is scary as **** to drive at 250whp ha. Not gonna lie, i do want to make more power than my dads MSM though.
Now being that it is going to be a track car its gonna be running at high boost for long periods of time. I want to be able to trust my car not to blow when im 100 miles from home. I will drive this to events and home. Doing the same thing with my dads MSM next month. Anyone here going to the Miata day at laguna seca next month?
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02-16-2009, 02:40 PM
#13
Indeed asking questions won't get you anywhere. You have to learn on your own here bascially. I sent you a PM in case you didn't notice. It will help you some. Also, as Rafa mentioned, go to the meet and greet forum and introduce yourself. That's always the best thing to do when you go to a new forum.
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