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-   -   DSM: 14b or 16g hmm? (https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/dsm-14b-16g-hmm-34519/)

railz 04-28-2009 08:40 PM

DSM: 14b or 16g hmm?
 
my current set up is with a dsm 16g i like the power is produces but not the lag i need a retune for some things i changed recently also.

well today i picked up a dsm 14b and i know it spools faster and ive been thinking about going with a new set up since i will be going to the dyno tuner soon since im going to stick some 550cc injectors in there.

would you guys recommend i switch over to the 14b over the 16g? i know i wont be able to make as much power but i want faster response over power really.

thanks:noob:

skidude 04-28-2009 08:42 PM

I've got the 14b and it's awesome. I drove a miata with a bigger turbo and the lag on mine is essentially non-existant. Fully spooled by 3200, starts to spool at 2200ish. I haven't had mine tuned yet but I hear they have no real trouble hitting 230whp, so I'm hoping for around there or maybe a little more.

railz 04-28-2009 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skidude108 (Post 401714)
I've got the 14b and it's awesome. I drove a miata with a bigger turbo and the lag on mine is essentially non-existant. Fully spooled by 3200, starts to spool at 2200ish. I haven't had mine tuned yet but I hear they have no real trouble hitting 230whp, so I'm hoping for around there or maybe a little more.

Thanks for the quick response!

thats it! im switching over.

the sound of spooling so fast gets me all jittery hehe :giggle:

NoMiEzMX-5 04-29-2009 12:35 AM

yea on my old dsm wit a 14b i ad no problem ittin ull boost my 2700rpms on a ported 14b. te 16s usually it full boost near 3700rpms..on 463

keyboard problems..sorry for te retarded response...lol

railz 04-29-2009 01:45 AM

i hope it's ok to use the hot side of the 16g with the compressor side of the 14b. the exhaust wheel on the 16 and 14b look exactly the same and seem to be same size

FRT_Fun 04-29-2009 01:48 AM

I had a 14b and 16g on my old DSM, the power with the 16g was nice, but the 14b would spool up so quick. If that is what you want, go for it.

Atlanta93LE 04-29-2009 08:37 AM

I like my 16g, but have a 14b sitting around here as well. If you do the swap, post back and let us know how it went.

wildfire0310 04-29-2009 10:24 AM

Well it will all vary based on what type of 16G you have. People seem to not realize there were three types of 16Gs. Small, Big and EVO3. Now days most 16G for sale are based off the EVO3 since it was the best of the three.

Basically it works like this. If you happen to have a small 16G and step down to a 14B. Your spool will mildly increase and lose some power(most like 300-500rpm drop). Big 16:: Great increase to spool with a great lose of power difference per psi(800-1200 rpm). Evo3(what you most like have): Decent increase in spool with an ok lose of power per psi.(400-800 rpm drop) . ***granted all estimates based on own 4g63

I say log a pull at a set PSI with the 16G and then swap to the 14B and do another run and compare logs. Only way to really tell. Should be a really simple swap since everything should swap without a problem. The only issue could be the oil drain bolts may be wider in the 14B then the 16G. I know the 14B and 20G bolt holes didn't line up 100% but the drain hole was in the same place so it just required filing the drain line.

hindle 04-29-2009 10:29 AM

The center cartridge of the MHI 14b and 16g are the same. The best combo would be to use the 16g 7cm^2 exhaust housing and the rest of the 14b.

But, like wildfire said, it all depends on which version of the 16g you have. As far as the oil drain on the 16g vs 20g, that's because the 20g had a different exhaust housing.

wildfire0310 04-29-2009 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hindle (Post 401963)
The center cartridge of the MHI 14b and 16g are the same. The best combo would be to use the 16g 7cm^2 exhaust housing and the rest of the 14b.

But, like wildfire said, it all depends on which version of the 16g you have. As far as the oil drain on the 16g vs 20g, that's because the 20g had a different exhaust housing.

Also there is a far difference in the 14B and 16G. The center cartridge is the same between all MHI turbos, but the turbine and compressors are different between the two.

The best setup for a 1.6 would be the 16G compressor with a 14B exhaust housing. But that is basically what the small 16G was. What I really like to see is a small 20G.. aka the 20G in a 16G housing, on a 1.8.


The exhaust housing had nothing to do with the minor difference in the oil drain. The two bolts that held the oil drain on (stock MHI oil drain) were like 2-3 mm closer then on the 14B. Nothing really major just something I remember when I swapped. Figured I would his bolts may or may not line 100% between the 14B and 16G, but now he has for warning he may have to file the down holes a little.

magnamx-5 04-29-2009 11:51 AM

the 14b is tinny yo. A small 16g flows better than a big sub 18 psi lvls, and a evo 3 outflows everywhere on the map. I think you need to man up and throw some timming and lean your shit out there railz. My 16g begins boost at 1900, and has pretty linear power from then on. If you only want 200 whp and thats it put the 14b on but if you wanna do more the 16g is alot better for you.

railz 04-29-2009 12:54 PM

so this whole time i had a small 16g whille using a 16g evo III comp housing, no wonder my boost didnt kick in till 4.2K+ rpm

i switched back to the regular small 16g comp housing and now it spools quick and i love it but if the 14b can spool even faster then that... i wanna use it!

magnamx-5 04-29-2009 01:10 PM

lol the 14b will but you will make less power on more boost and in general make a shit ton of heat. You still have major probs if your boost isn't in way before 4200 rpm

wildfire0310 04-29-2009 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by railz (Post 402056)
so this whole time i had a small 16g whille using a 16g evo III comp housing, no wonder my boost didnt kick in till 4.2K+ rpm

i switched back to the regular small 16g comp housing and now it spools quick and i love it but if the 14b can spool even faster then that... i wanna use it!


If you are already running a small 16g then the gains from the 14B aren't going to be that great. A few hundred rpm, but you are going to make less power.

If you looking to make that few extra psi just that much quicker then yea going to the 14B will help but you will give up a nice amount of power for it.

You will see more gains from running better timing as Magna has said then from stepping down to the 14B from the small 16G

sixshooter 04-29-2009 02:52 PM

An EBC would increase your spool by a few hundred rpms and you could keep the additional power capabilities of the big turbo, too. Or you could just do what everybody with any knowledge of your setup has suggested an actually tune it to run better (duh).

You seem to be stubbornly focused on the little turbo, so go ahead and do that. Let us know how it works out.

railz 04-29-2009 03:44 PM

well i do like the fact that it WILL spool quicker but then again most are saying stick with the 16g since its a small 16g

At this point i honestly dont know. i want quick spool with power. these turbos both out weigh each other

railz 04-29-2009 03:51 PM

EBC Electronic Boost Control Solenoid Kit DIYAutoTune.com

Is this all i will need for the EBC? i can install myself but when i take it to the dyno tuner he should be able to handle the rest right?

UofACATS 04-29-2009 04:13 PM

The pertinent question is how much boost are you running? Next, is the 16G providing an advantage over the 14b at that boost level?

Small 16G turbos are pretty efficient, but 14b's have been known to put down great power for what they are. I'd swap it and give it a chance. Why not?

hindle 04-29-2009 05:24 PM

I made 29x (I forget the exact number) on a DSM with a 14b @18psi. The turbo will make the power... Heck you can get a used 14b for peanuts. It's a 30 minute job to switch them, so try it out, if you don't like it, then swap the 16g back in. You can even leave the turbine housing attached to the exhaust mani and just separate the turbo. Piece of cake!


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