EFR wastegate wired open = CARNAGE!
 

So I just put in a freshly built motor to handle my EFR 6258, and I figured I could wire the wastegate open to stay out of boost during the break-in period. So I disconnected the wastegate from the actuator arm and wired it in the fully open position. What I didn't know at the time is that this put the wastegate flapper in contact with the turbine. Want to see what happens when the wastegate is held against the spinning turbine? Wait no further:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1461526582

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1461526582

I felt like an idiot for doing this, but even a documentation search and internet search after the fact didn't show any obvious warnings not to wire your wastegate all the way open. Was there some manufacturing defect that allowed this kind of interference? Would anyone else with an EFR care to check if their wastegate hits the turbine when it's disconnected from the rod and opened as far as it will go? I'll try to contact Borg Warner this week to see if I was just a dumbass or if maybe there was a problem with my unit.

At the very least, maybe this post can serve as a heads up to help other people avoid learning this lesson the hard way.

Ughhh, that's painful to read. Sounds just like something I would do. Thanks for sharing, hopefully it saves someone else in the future.

There is no manufacturer defect. The door swings open to the turbine. I was thinking about rigidly fixing the waste gate during winter, but it'd quite literally have been just enough to Crack it and hold it in pplace.

But all units I've had, you could swing the gate open to touch.

Oh shit, I'm sorry dude. Totally something I would do. Thank you for figuring this out for us.

If you decide to rebuild maybe Bullseye Power Turbochargers - Performance Turbo Manufacturing can help you out. They are a local turbo company that can service borgs and they also make alot of their own parts like my turbo.

I cannot believe that it is even possible to do.

Also why are you disconnecting the wastegate to break the motor in. When breaking in motors i have always just set the car at wastegate and done gradual short one gear pulls to seat the rings and build some heat. Shoot my last built motor i broke it in on a 500whp ish map then gradually turned it up as the miles were put on.

ugh. that sucks man. Hope you find a good way to fix or replace this

The recommendation from the engine builder was to limit the pulls to 100kpa for the initial break-in. I thought I'd be clever and just keep the wastegate open so I wouldn't have to worry as much about throttle modulation to keep it out of boost. I suppose some innate desire to avoid having pieces just flapping around led me to wire it fixed in the fully open position. Yeah, if only I had been lazier and not messed with the turbo I could have avoided this. Although, I must admit I've considered wiring the wastegate open before. I occasionally do HPDE instruction and I thought it might be useful to have the ability to "disable" the turbo and demonstrate that it is still possible to go fast even without the HP. Definitely won't be doing THAT now!

Thanks for the rebuilder suggestion.

Pretty dumb that there's no warning for this IMO.

Frustrating man, sorry to hear it.

I almost did the same thing... Fortunatly i had the engine idling and felt the valve hitting the turbine, ended up installing a piece of allthread to keep the wastegate open but not hitting anything

Bummer :(
Actually we mentioned this exact thing in Gordon's thread.

But that would be pretty difficult for you to find either way since it's buried in pages and pages of discussion

It's one of those things that theoretically doesn't need a warning label (if used as designed) but really should have one anyways.

Sticky?

Are you kidding? You guys don't flip your turbo around under inspection in all sorts of angles like a kid receiving a new toy?

I noticed this before ever installing it because I had to remove the wastegate canister to clock the housings. It was blatantly apparent. If assembled and installed as intended by manufacturer, this would never happen.

I group this into the same snafu as not hooking up an oil line for XYZ break in reason and finding out you roasted your bearings. They wouldn't need to include a warning for that.

When my shit broke, I had to get a supercore. I'd be amazed if you could get the turbine and shaft individually. Won't you have to send the compressor wheel in separately for balancing? Get a shiny aluminum supercore and lose some weight while you're at it.

Shit man, sorry to read this. I actually thought the same thing for a similar reason -- doing a remote tune on my NC means a delicate foot is good practice until the mapping gets closer to good. Guess I'll be avoiding this solution to the problem and instead just back out the preload to as little as possible and actually light-footing it.

https://www.miataturbo.net/miata-par...8-turbo-88604/

Here's a good deal, cheaper than a supercore.

BARELY cheaper than a supercore

http://thmotorsports.com/borgwarner/...i-2283117.aspx

There you go, fix your shit already

Yep. EFR wastegate flappers do this phenomenon.

Buy the 6758

Do this :

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1461945665

Or just run it and have some self control.

Choofoojoo, is that an m12x1.25 to - 6AN 90°adapter for oil feed?

I'm having trouble finding one without it being a female An fitting.

True, Low boost can on my 6758 with 2-turns preload ended up at like 4psi... so yea nothing to worry about.

Nope. it's the stock BW Oil restrictor and the FM "round the backside" oil feed bits (AN-4 line, 90* steel AN-4 swivel) Not sure why you'd want to run AN-6 on the oil feed.

The coolant bits are just Ye ol standard AN-6 fare.

BW EFR technical document states if over some length and operating in cold ass regions, then use - 6AN to help reduce flow resistance.

I built my car in New England. I was over 28" of feed line (or whatever the length was)

Page 37


http://www.full-race.com/articles/efrturbotechbrief.pdf

Neat. I live in cold ass Colorado, and have like a 40" round the back AN-4... Add to the list. *sigh*

Sorry buddy. It's probably fine, but information is nice to have as reference.

So I'm still leaning towards keeping it 6258 instead of going 6758. I track the car and don't want to be going through 6 speed transmissions regularly. I'll probably keep it tuned to around 300hp and may occasionally bump it up to 350 or so. I know the benefit of the 6258 is only a marginally faster spool, but that is an advantage, and if I don't plan on using the top end of the 6758,
is there any other reason to use it?

Not really.

Dear lord thank you baby Jesus. I was so close to doing this. I searched it "just in case" and just wow.

I definitely told you not to do this when we were sitting in your garage

then I completely spaced the conversation. I'll take notes next time.

[QUOTE=farpolemiddle;1374531]then I completely spaced the conversation. I'll take notes next time.[/QUOTE bless your heart for calling that shack a garage.

Zoot; At 20psi / 430hp/330tq I have yet to break my 6spd. I do prefer the gearing of the 5spd, shame the 6 isn't the 5spd with another cruise gear :(

How often do you track the car?

Not as often as I should, I have hit a few events in the last 4 months and I was definitely having a hard time keeping the pedal off the floor :party:

I'm not doing brake stands/drag clutch dumps so that's going to definitely help a lot. I broke my 5spd on an asphalt-patch-riddled landmine of a road when the wheels hopped and killed 3rd gear.

What about the 6 speed with 3.6 diff combo that many (including myself) run? It's almost identical to a 5spd/4.3 with an extra gear. Although I did run a 5 speed with a 3.9 rear end for a bit when I was running low boost with a stock engine and I think I enjoyed that ratio the most with the tall gearing.

Kind of drifting OT, but I'm going to be parting out my car soon, including the relatively new 6258, TSE built motor, freshly rebuilt 6 speed, 3.6 OS Giken diff plus a lot more. Any parts that don't sell locally right away I'll post for sale on mt.net.

It pains me to do that, but I came across a deal on a fully track prepped V8 Miata that I couldn't pass up. Sadly, I can't keep both cars. Because marriage.

Divorce is an option. Then you just get some cats to keep you company.

Divorce would cost more than the cars. Then he has no Miatas.

Do it. V8 vs turbo the reliability and peace of mind can't be beat. I've been tempted to get a 3.6 OSG for a while, I'll be on the lookout for your thread. Would probably drive down there from MSP to pick it up if the price is right :party:

@Zoot
3.6 OS Gik. I'm interested

Do you have documentation/receipts for this?

@Chooofoojoo whats up with the two vband clamps on the exhaust ?

Interested in the 3.6
rear end

Where were you fuckers when I was trying to unload my decked-out brand-new 3.63 hi-power OSG with guibo delete, Rx7 housing, and poly bushings two years ago :hatecat:

agro

I had just blown my motor and turbo. Then didn't touch my car for 6 months. Still FS?

Waiting for the 3.3 rear end group buy ...

I'm still on the waiting list, I hear it's right around the corner!

One of the many lessons I learned along the way during my build is never wait for a product that doesn't exist yet! I would have missed out on a couple years of turbo fun if I had waited for Andrew's EFR kit to be completed ;)

Thanks for the interest in the 3.63 OSG. Once I get a chance to take it off the car in a week or two I'll post it up here if I haven't sold it locally.

Mani/DP was originally built for Garret with 5-bolt to Vibrant V-band adapter. The EFR was about 1.5" short housing wise, so I had Abe whip up a EFR to Vibrant V-band adapter. Works well.

But then the motor blew. So yea. :hatecat:

Interested in 3.6. :party:

Motor blew? What? New?

Update:
Sold my rebuilt 6 speed and 3.6 OSG diff locally, but I'm starting to post some of the other major parts for sale
https://www.miataturbo.net/miata-par...up-more-91866/