EWG on cast FM manifold?
 

I have been accumulating parts for my next setup. Currently my car has a SR20 turbo, bolted to a Flyin Miata cast manifold. Bolted to my turbine, is a Flyin Miata cast turbine outlet. I bought a SS 5 bolt flange, and a piece of 3" SS 120* mandrel bent exhaust tubing so I can fab up my own outlet. My turbo is currently internally wastegated, but I'd love to run an external wastegate. This exact wastegate, in fact:
NEW! Tial External Wastegate, V-banded 38mm (aka V38 aka MVS 38mm) : atpturbo.com
Tial 38mm V band.
I remember reading about grinding the "Powered by Flyin Miata" lettering off, and drilling and tapping for a 2 bolt flange on the manifold. I used the dimensions for that flange as found here:
http://www.tialmedia.com/documents/w3_tial_38_dim.pdf
and I drew it up on a piece of paper and laid it on my manifold. No dice...see photos:
Attachment 68857

Attachment 68858
I'm thinking, "now what?" What if I modified the oval shaped 2 bolt flange and made it round? It would fit like this:
Attachment 68859
Perhaps I could weld it to the manifold? The manifold is cast though, so I'm not sure how well that would work.
What if I tapped 4 holes in it and bolted the round flange to the manifold? like this:
Attachment 68860
Who has done what I want to do? Which one of my ideas do you think would work the best?
I welcome any good input on this.
Thanks guys.

patsmx5 did exactly that.
I'm sure others did that too.
Why spend all that money on a ewg just to tack it to a log?
Also there's a very good chance it will crack. Even the begi s5 pieces, professionally welded and whatnot, tend to crack in that specific spot, because cast iron doesn't like to be mated to a tube or a flange.

good luck. I think its pointless. Sell the log and buy a proper tubular manifold with ewg from abe for just a couple hundo more, and enjoy ALL the benefits of a setup like that. Just my .02

Thanks Vlad. I had a laugh cause its 1:00am where I live, I posted that and thought, "I wonder who will be the first to respond?" I actually said to myself, "probably 18psi."
I'm thinking it would be a real bad idea to weld on that manifold. What's your opinion of my 4 bolt flange design? I can't see how bolting a flange on would cause problems.

I can't find any evidence of this. I'm looking for pics/ etc., anyone have a link?

check this out. tacotaco manifold with a tial ewg

Mazda Miata Turbo | Tial MVS 38mm External Wastegate Install

The problem is not welding cast (they have rod and procedure for that) but welding cast to mild steel. You'd be better off bolting it on if you were to do that.

I'm not sure what 4 bolt flange design you're talking about.
search his name: patsmx5. He's been banned for years, but I often still talk to him. Very cool/knowledgeable guy and successfully implemented quite a few interesting/different ways doing up a turbo miata.

Thanks for the link. That actually looks decent, although, I'm going to do the bolt on method for mine. I don't trust mating SS to cast.
Dude, that link was perfect...same WG as I want to use and all!

glad i could help! ive been thinking about doing this for a while now, but i dont want it to crack as others have stated. i know that manifold has been parted and sold, maybe you could contact that current owner and see how it's holding up

The one in my last photo in post #1...it's round with the 4 X's around it. That was my paper drawing of my "I could make this flange" design.

I searched his name and found like 149 posts from him. If I remember right, wasn't he the guy that ran MS2 on a '99 N/A with nitrous and went like 14.0? I never followed him and a turbo setup...

Yep, rand a 100shot of nitrous. Then built a gt32 setup with a begi log and ewg.

The flange might work. I'd probably take that route over welding too

Bit more info here:

https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...anifold-66958/

still no conclusion though.

4 bolt flange would be a good idea, weld the MVS supplied inlet flange to the 4 bolt flange.

That's the plan! I gotta check the metal rack at work and see what I can heist to build this flange.

Wow, I just got angry reading that thread again. I had to yell at you a lot and you still didn't listen.

For the last time- a 2bolt WILL NOT work over the "FM" logo on the new manifolds. THERE IS OVER HANG AND IT WILL NOT SEAL!!!!!!!!!!!

THIS PICTURE IS A RENDERING AND IT NEVER HAPPENED. THIS WILL NOT WORK ON THEIR CURRENT PRODUCTION MANIFOLDS.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1342105981

OP, PatsMX5 welded it on the BOTTOM off the collector.

Also OP, you have a T25, do this
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1342086382

OP, I love you and Imma let you finish, but that turbine replacement is the belt solution at this. AT THIS TIME.

No its not. Its mediocre. Best solution is a custom tubi with ewg from Abe :party:

PS: to clarify, I know many use this "solution", but if you're letting the gasses into the hotside before venting them, you're still choking up quite a bit, and its more of a compromise between iwg and ewg, not a "true" ewg. It will probably not creep like iwg though so at least that's good.

Agreed. That's why I sold mine :greddy:

But if OP wants to hack his cast manifold, then I don't see him really looking to spend baller bucks on a new hotside.

you know what's easier?

Lulz. I gave up and sold it In the end. going artech instead :party:

Rofl. Me too. Abe is doing some work for me right now :vash2:

Being a MOD. Having a stock everything. Being afraid to leave your house.

Yo, on tha real, MS3x

Yeah, leaving it alone and just running my IWG. F that noise though...

yeah that.

Late Bump Todd what did you end up running?

Tial mvs 38mm water cooled wastegate. I'll try to post pics later. I made a really cool adapter plate that bolted to my manifold.

Could you just port the shit out of your flapper hole and run an external wastegate on a divorced downpipe? Half assed...I know.

Maybe you could, I don't know...I still need to upload photos so the world can see my masterpiece. I'll get around to it sooner or later...probably later.

If thought about this but there isnt a whole lot of room.

As promised:
Attachment 103596

Attachment 103597

Attachment 103598

How did you make that flange? Can you make me one? Looks great Todd

That flange consisted of like an hour of lathe work, some grinding, lots of drilling, counter boring, and welding. The manifold required some milling, drilling, and tapping.
I built this cause I like having things that nobody else has, and I like fabricating things like this.
Would I make one for you? Sorry, but no. The price I would charge you, you're better off just buying a tubular manifold with a wastegate flange welded on it.

Hell yeah. Nice job on it.

Thanks Tim! Your compliments are greatly appreciated.
My manifold actually looked like crap from the years it was bolted to my car, so I mediablasted it and painted it. I'll try to upload photos of everything mounted up and finished in the car, tonight. The 3 photos above don't do it any justice.

So it seems like abe's the man to go to. Time to start saving.

I went EWG on a cast mainfold once.....




https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1392851410




never again.:2cents:

That's exactly why I didn't weld mine on...

Who did the welding on that?

Had it sent out to some guy that does this for a bunch of 240 manifolds in Tennessee.

Was that an old FM manifold? IMO if it was you could have bolted it to the bottom

It was a FM manifold, I didn't want to bolt it to the bottom. The top has a flat surface and where the EWG sits makes it easy to change springs.

I was talking about the one pictured that cracked. I dont even think you can mount it to the bottom like our manifolds. But I remember the old FM3 was just and FM2 tapped for EWG. because the bottom was really flat.

It was a MSM manifold.

Props given. Looks really good!

LOL, are you the guy that argued with me about this over on CR.net? I may have been a bit harsh, but i still stand by what i said :party:

Might of bin, My idea behind it was DSM guys do it so a miata should be able to do it. It was a dumb idea. You live and you learn I guess.

Here are some crappy Iphone pics of the setup mounted in the car and finished. I did all my water lines in -4 braided SS. The -10 braided line coming off my valve cover goes to the end of my DP to a slash cut. My PVC port on the valve cover is welded shut, and I welded a -10 male fitting where my breather tube was on the valve cover. The -4 cooling lines go from the supply to the EWG, then to the turbo CHRA, then back to the return. The dump tube is a 90* bend, goes down between the DP and the cast manifold, then turns like 25* and points straight down about 2" under the manifold where it vents to atmosphere. I did this cause to weld it to the DP would be a pain if I ever had to dismantle this setup, and I didn't want a whole lot of weight hanging off the side of the EWG. My turbine outlet is a 5 bolt GT28 outlet with the oval port design, I took a piece of 120* bend 3" SS tubing and cut it and smashed it flat to make an angled oval shape before I welded it to the flange. Then I cut it to be about as long as a FM turbine outlet, and welded a v band flange on it. I used my FM SS DP, but I cut the bolt flange off of that and welded a v band flange on it. I thought about making it all 1 piece from the turbo flange to the end of the DP, but if I ever need to take it apart, I simply undo a v band clamp instead of unbolting/ stripping/ snapping off studs. Another thing about my DP, it had 2 O2 ports on it. I used the upper one for my wideband, and the rear one I used a cut off wheel and made it disappear. This became my mounting hole to weld my slash cut to.

Attachment 103841

Attachment 103842

Attachment 103843

looking good Todd.

Apparently it can be done well. You just have to treat the cast with a certain amount of heat to get good penetration. That is what I have heard but fuck I aint ever attempting that shit lol

if it can be done well, I have still yet to see it.

pretty much every one of the begi s5 manifolds sold here used has been cracked thus far. same goes for every other welded cast manifold I"ve ever seen.

With Todd using that adapter/bolts I think his manifold might actually hold up. Only thing I see that might happen is those bolts might stretch, so might need inco

Same here I havent seen a long lasting welded cast. I really dont understand why begi didnt just have a seperate cast manifold with EWG instead of welding to their current cast.

On the flip side Im thinking about taking some measurements and playing with inventor and getting and adapter made. (off topic) I still need to create an illustrator file for custom gauges too.(so many projects)

It's because Miata.

This sort of thing lasts forever on cars that aren't Miatas.

I guess I became the long term testing dummy for this setup.

While Todd didn't make that guy one of these, I guess I beat him to the bunch and just bought the whole damn setup! Can't wait to get it working!

Update: Manifold still hasn't broken in the location where it was tapped for the ewg.

Point: If this has survived me for a year, it'll likely work for anyone else that wants to take the time to do what Todd did!

I'm really glad this held up for ya, and I'm glad you got to experience it. I built it with full intentions of it lasting forever, but then life stuff happened for me and I decided to change my route.