Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats. (https://www.miataturbo.net/)
-   DIY Turbo Discussion (https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/)
-   -   Excessive catchcan oil (https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/excessive-catchcan-oil-62100/)

94mx5red 12-07-2011 05:37 PM

Excessive catchcan oil
 
8 Attachment(s)
Recently I have been making a 40 mile drive, mostly highway, around 80mph. This is the result. Overflowing my catchcan.

My guess is around 36 ounces based on the oil on the shelf and ground. Around 3 beer cans worth. Oil is only coming out of the driver's side.

Running a garett 2554r around 12psi.


Yesterday, thinking I was smart, I disconnected the passenger side and ran it to a can. This solved nothing. Changed the driver's side to run uphill over the intake made no change.

I still have the 323gtx valve on the passenger side.


Driving home in an hour and expect to be mopping more oil. Going to be making this drive often now because of a family issue. Any help is greatly appreciated. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,
Shane

94mx5red 12-07-2011 07:30 PM

Overflowed it on the way home.

Savington 12-07-2011 07:48 PM

1. Leakdown the motor, if you have anything worse than 20% leak at the rings you have a blowby issue

2. Assuming your motor is healthy, you should be able to hook the factory PCV hose up to the intake manifold, run a breather on the driver's side, and have no oil consumption/blowby issue.

In reality, I'm expecting you to fail test 1. If you have issues filling cans on the highway, you have motor issues. Road course cars are a little different but for street turbo cars, you should be able to run the factory PCV setup with no issue.

Clos561 12-07-2011 08:17 PM

I have a similar issue but i dont have a catch can. I notice minor oil residue coming from the base of the oil cap(def not enough ti fil a soda can). I have a breather in driver side. Sav you know why this is happening?

Slacker2223 12-07-2011 11:17 PM

what is with that first IC pipe?!?! its almost a 180 degree turn in like a 3 inch area.

Slacker2223 12-07-2011 11:20 PM

also it looks like you are running a breather filter on your idle valve. those are known to leak under boost. route that back into your cold side IC piping.

94mx5red 12-08-2011 07:22 AM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 803638)
1. Leakdown the motor, if you have anything worse than 20% leak at the rings you have a blowby issue

2. Assuming your motor is healthy, you should be able to hook the factory PCV hose up to the intake manifold, run a breather on the driver's side, and have no oil consumption/blowby issue.

In reality, I'm expecting you to fail test 1. If you have issues filling cans on the highway, you have motor issues. Road course cars are a little different but for street turbo cars, you should be able to run the factory PCV setup with no issue.


Other than this, the engine feels fine. *sigh*

Is the blowby purely from boost? Do you think it would be worth it to disconnect the wastegate?

I will source a leakdown tester, and post up the results.

94mx5red 12-08-2011 07:34 AM


Originally Posted by Clos561 (Post 803650)
I have a similar issue but i dont have a catch can. I notice minor oil residue coming from the base of the oil cap(def not enough ti fil a soda can). I have a breather in driver side. Sav you know why this is happening?

Carlos, are you frequently in the Northlake/Coconut area? Pretty sure I have seen you running around the acerage.




Originally Posted by Slacker2223 (Post 803694)
what is with that first IC pipe?!?! its almost a 180 degree turn in like a 3 inch area.

Pretty sweet, right? :giggle:

That originally went from the turbo inlet to the air filter. It just so happens to fit well here too. It is a Begi piece from the S kit.


Originally Posted by Slacker2223 (Post 803695)
also it looks like you are running a breather filter on your idle valve. those are known to leak under boost. route that back into your cold side IC piping.

Oh yea... I remember reading about that a while ago, and promptly forgot to do anything about it.

Clos561 12-08-2011 10:54 AM


Originally Posted by 94mx5red (Post 803777)
Carlos, are you frequently in the Northlake/Coconut area? Pretty sure I have seen you running around the acerage.





Pretty sweet, right? :giggle:

That originally went from the turbo inlet to the air filter. It just so happens to fit well here too. It is a Begi piece from the S kit.



Oh yea... I remember reading about that a while ago, and promptly forgot to do anything about it.

i have a few friends out there but i live in royal palm beach. la mancha to be exact. you?

Faeflora 12-08-2011 12:06 PM

Just plug them holes right up and no more problem

muoto 12-08-2011 01:42 PM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 803638)
1. Leakdown the motor, if you have anything worse than 20% leak at the rings you have a blowby issue

I'm in similar situation. ~36 ounces /month

Can piston rings leak even though compression test show ok numbers? (195-195-190-190 PSI)

Savington 12-09-2011 12:24 AM

Yep, compression will show up fine because the oil helps the rings seal. Leakdown test betrays the engine's confidences every time, though.

94mx5red 12-09-2011 07:44 AM

2 Attachment(s)
I kept out of boost and speed down to 75mph, and it still puked oil.


Harbor Freight was the only place I could find a leakdown tester unless I wanted to order online. This is the exact one that I got. Feels cheap.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323434683


I tried it last night, and quit when the mosquitoes got bad. This was my first attempt ever, and I think I screwed up. I did not put the car in gear after finding TDC.

Here is the method I used:
- disconnect battery
- pull plugs and wires
- find TDC for #1
- test
- went to TDC from cylinders in order 1 - 3- 4 - 2
- did not put car in gear

First round:
1: 63
3: 29 ; 30
4: 59 ; 70 ; 65
2: 20 ; 21

Second round:
1: 22 ; 34 ; 53 ; 100
3: 27 ; 34 ; 37
4: 26 ; 22
2: 39 ; 33 ; 24

Third round:
1: 40 ; 100 ; 37 ; 37
eaten alive


I am guessing that these may be mostly useless since I did not lock the engine from spinning.

I will try again on Saturday.

94mx5red 12-10-2011 03:44 PM

Well, I guess I have a blowby issue.

Did the leakdown on a cold engine, and remembered to put the transmission in gear. It is difficult to get consistant results with this tool, but these are the averages:

1: 24
2: 32
3: 32
4: 25

To add insult to injury, the small fitting you see in the picture of the tool, unscrewed from the hose and is sitting in the #1 plug hole. I can't get it out. I tried putting some thread locker on the hose and screwed it in. Will let it sit until tomorrow.

94mx5red 12-10-2011 03:58 PM


Originally Posted by Clos561 (Post 803849)
i have a few friends out there but i live in royal palm beach. la mancha to be exact. you?

I am up in Stuart, but I am doing all the work at my family's house in the acerage.

Know anyone that wants to buy a miata with blown rings? I have a spare low milage 95 engine to go with it. turboz not included.

TURNS101 12-11-2011 12:02 AM

Cheap and easy fix. Just fix it and turn up the boost..

Savington 12-11-2011 12:13 AM

With the leakdown tester hooked up, take the oil cap off and listen for air in the oil cap, through the intake, and out the tailpipe. At 30+% one/all of them will sound like a very, very leaky air compressor fitting.

Oil cap = rings
Exhaust = Exh. valves
Intake = Int. valves

If you hit the wrong TDC, the leakdown will be ~45%. If you get 45%, spin it over again and try again. Then go 1-3-4-2 from there.

Your numbers (assuming its rings) would probably produce blowby, yeah. It's time for a shortblock.

muoto 12-12-2011 06:19 PM

Does somebody know where I can get cheap leakdown tester online?

fastnfurious7 12-12-2011 07:17 PM

The one he posted from Harbor Freight is about as cheap as you're gonna get. I haven't found any tool places that beat their prices though just about all of them beat their quality. I usually buy their stuff anyway because I don't make a living with my tools.

Clos561 12-13-2011 11:55 AM


Originally Posted by 94mx5red (Post 804679)
I am up in Stuart, but I am doing all the work at my family's house in the acerage.

Know anyone that wants to buy a miata with blown rings? I have a spare low milage 95 engine to go with it. turboz not included.

no lol. i should probably do a leakdown test on my car also :(

94mx5red 12-13-2011 05:23 PM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 804773)
With the leakdown tester hooked up, take the oil cap off and listen for air in the oil cap, through the intake, and out the tailpipe. At 30+% one/all of them will sound like a very, very leaky air compressor fitting.

Oil cap = rings
Exhaust = Exh. valves
Intake = Int. valves

If you hit the wrong TDC, the leakdown will be ~45%. If you get 45%, spin it over again and try again. Then go 1-3-4-2 from there.

Your numbers (assuming its rings) would probably produce blowby, yeah. It's time for a shortblock.

Tested again and listened. I can clearly hear air with the oil cap removed, and not at all from the intake (throttle open) or the exhaust. It is not loud, but clearly audible.

Anything else I should be testing before I start removing the engine?

I have never pulled an engine on a miata, and only once before in my life. Is the general consensus that I take the transmission out with it?

To complicate matters, this car is going to be returned to stock. I am trying to decide whether to pull the MS now or after I get the new engine started. Preferably, I would like to pull the MS and swap in stock injectors now. Opinions?


I guess me and boost were never meant to be :facepalm:

94mx5red 12-13-2011 05:39 PM

6 Attachment(s)
i kid :giggle:

turbo and MS are replacing the supercharger on the 99.

Since I know this forum is a lover of vortech...

94mx5red 12-13-2011 08:26 PM


Originally Posted by 94mx5red (Post 805926)
I have never pulled an engine on a miata, and only once before in my life. Is the general consensus that I take the transmission out with it?

To add, I will be doing this alone.

Faeflora 12-13-2011 08:47 PM


Originally Posted by 94mx5red (Post 805988)
To add, I will be doing this alone.

The first time I ever pulled a motor was alone and on my miata. If I can do it, you can too. Just disconnect everything and rip the fucker out. Pull tranny too.

muoto 01-21-2012 12:32 PM


Originally Posted by savington (Post 804773)
with the leakdown tester hooked up, take the oil cap off and listen for air in the oil cap, through the intake, and out the tailpipe. At 30+% one/all of them will sound like a very, very leaky air compressor fitting.

Oil cap = rings
exhaust = exh. Valves
intake = int. Valves

if you hit the wrong tdc, the leakdown will be ~45%. If you get 45%, spin it over again and try again. Then go 1-3-4-2 from there.

Your numbers (assuming its rings) would probably produce blowby, yeah. It's time for a shortblock.

I found a leakdown tester and just tested all the cylinders

First I did compression test:

1# = 190 psi
2# = 190 psi
3# = 185 psi
4# = 190 psi

and then leakdown test:

1# = 4% leak
2# = 50% leak
3# = 11% leak
4# = 6% leak

cyl 2# didn't seem normal so I did it again and it was over 80% leak. I remove the exhaust manifold and could feel how air was escaping through

Ex.valve(s) stuck or..?

94mx5red 01-21-2012 07:47 PM

4 Attachment(s)
engine out

edit: ,thanks to carlos.

Savington 01-21-2012 07:52 PM


Originally Posted by muoto (Post 824160)
I found a leakdown tester and just tested all the cylinders

First I did compression test:

1# = 190 psi
2# = 190 psi
3# = 185 psi
4# = 190 psi

and then leakdown test:

1# = 4% leak
2# = 50% leak
3# = 11% leak
4# = 6% leak

cyl 2# didn't seem normal so I did it again and it was over 80% leak. I remove the exhaust manifold and could feel how air was escaping through

Ex.valve(s) stuck or..?

Bent valve or a major seat issue. The last motor I leaked at 75% turned up compression numbers in the ~100psi range and ran on 2, maybe 3 cylinders.

hustler 01-22-2012 09:39 AM

In for valve job.

hornetball 01-22-2012 01:18 PM

Bottom line:

Compression Test = Waste of Time

BTW, Fae discoverd that even if you don't disconnect everything, the car has an "auto-disconnect" feature as you rip the engine/tranny out. So, no worries.

Faeflora 01-22-2012 01:22 PM


Originally Posted by hornetball (Post 824481)
Bottom line:

Compression Test = Waste of Time

BTW, Fae discoverd that even if you don't disconnect everything, the car has an "auto-disconnect" feature as you rip the engine/tranny out. So, no worries.

Exactly.

Personally i think you should drill a hole in your oil cap and route your catch can back into you oil cap. Problem solved. Now bow dow. To your new master and get out there and run the biitch!!!

94mx5red 01-22-2012 06:06 PM

2 Attachment(s)
newer engine in.

muoto 01-23-2012 03:14 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Savington (Post 824267)
Bent valve or a major seat issue. The last motor I leaked at 75% turned up compression numbers in the ~100psi range and ran on 2, maybe 3 cylinders.

You were right.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1327349670

94mx5red 01-23-2012 07:33 PM

2 Attachment(s)
One piece exhaust ftw :ugh2:

I grew tired or the 3", and ended up with the stock exhaust from the 99. Spool suffered at least 1000rpm. Pretty sure I datalogged if there is interest. Having it quiet was nice.

The exhaust shop took a couple liberties I was not comfortable with, but I did not complain, as I did not think I would be in the situation I am in. Will likely cut the downpipe to mate with the 2.5" on the 99, rather than getting a new one.

94mx5red 01-23-2012 08:23 PM

2 Attachment(s)
This is what my ebay f1 stage 3 clutch looks after 4 years and around 35k miles looks like. Practically down to the rivets.

I drove this daily and slipped first hard on a regular basis.

j_man 01-24-2012 03:01 PM

In general about this HF tester - it is huge pile of junk as is and shows bad numbers.
For future use - first change the second gauge with a 100 psi one (i.e. from McMaster.com). Also cut the aluminum block and change the orifice size cause the one inside is nowhere in spec. Do a 0.040 in (1.0 mm ) orifice.
Then measure the leakdown with 100 psi at the inlet.


Originally Posted by 94mx5red (Post 804245)
I kept out of boost and speed down to 75mph, and it still puked oil.


Harbor Freight was the only place I could find a leakdown tester unless I wanted to order online. This is the exact one that I got. Feels cheap.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323434683


I tried it last night, and quit when the mosquitoes got bad. This was my first attempt ever, and I think I screwed up. I did not put the car in gear after finding TDC.

Here is the method I used:
- disconnect battery
- pull plugs and wires
- find TDC for #1
- test
- went to TDC from cylinders in order 1 - 3- 4 - 2
- did not put car in gear

First round:
1: 63
3: 29 ; 30
4: 59 ; 70 ; 65
2: 20 ; 21

Second round:
1: 22 ; 34 ; 53 ; 100
3: 27 ; 34 ; 37
4: 26 ; 22
2: 39 ; 33 ; 24

Third round:
1: 40 ; 100 ; 37 ; 37
eaten alive


I am guessing that these may be mostly useless since I did not lock the engine from spinning.

I will try again on Saturday.


94mx5red 01-24-2012 06:59 PM

Everything about it felt cheap.

If I remember correctly, the pressure was only around 20psi at testing.

Probably going in the trash.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:33 PM.


© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands