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-   -   Few Begi-s questions (https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/few-begi-s-questions-19470/)

Serper3 04-10-2008 06:40 AM

Few Begi-s questions
 
hey guys, i have been doing alot of research and reading and searching, but i cant really find the answers to some questions. it seems like most of the info is for the na's.
i have a 99 and i am looking to do the begi s kit. i do plan on going with alot more power(250wp) in the next year as i am able to get a daily driver car. i want to play it safe though and be sure i have enough money for clutch and all the other things i will need to buy with the kit. i am hoping to get the kit in the next few days but i have some other questions.
1. what will i have to do with tunning the s kit? i know with my power goal i should probably get the t2560. do i basically need a wideband o2 and a guage to tune the car? what else do i need? i know people get the lc1, is that for the earlier cars? can i wait to get the wideband o2 until i will run more power?
3. are their any other things that i would need to get the car running with the 6psi kit on my 99 if i get the begi s kit with the begi fuel system?
4. if i want to save some more money and get the t2554, how much power/psi can i go with that. i saw that the t2560 supposedly can go 240, can i go into the low 200whp with the t2554? because if this is the case i might just do that, and try to source a bigger turbo in a year or w.e when i get all my exhaust, intercooler and engine management taken care off.
thanks alot guys and i really appreciate the help. i am pretty mechanically inclined, but new to turbos and new to miatas.
again thanks alot for everyones help!

budget racer 04-10-2008 10:01 AM

look at my sig........i just dyno'd at 161.2rwhp/139.9rwtq.

to eliminate detonation i needed to get a timing retard device, larger injectors, and walbro fuel pump.

i installed the lc-1 ahead of time to keep an eye on AFRs.

Ben 04-10-2008 10:14 AM

You'll need to deal with engine management first. If you're very budget oriented, the AEM FIC or a parallel MS might be the ticket.

Braineack 04-10-2008 10:16 AM

if you wanna reach your goal, I'd look into the S1 kit with the 2560 as your turbo. Then get someone to build you a piggyback Megasquirt or use the Xede.

samnavy 04-10-2008 10:32 AM

^Agreed.

You need to call Begi about how they configure the AFPR for your '99 returnless fuel system. And I'd really consider going to more of a DIY route to save money and investing in an ECU first. The 90-97 cars are better candidates for using an AFPR for fuel. Begi and FM both specifically recommend an ECU when going boosted on '99+. Perhaps initially purchase an Xede (comes with injectors), get it installed... then spend some time saving up and purchase your "S" system in 6 months, or continue to do homework and shop in the classifieds for used parts.

The "S" with 2560 and BOV will get you 7psi w/ECU. To go bigger, you're gonna need charge cooling. Being mechanically inclined, you should have no problem using eBay to buy an IC/Pipes/Coupler/BOV and mount them. Then you're good for about 15psi which should get you to 250whp on a '99.

Budget $400 for your clutch.

Zabac 04-10-2008 10:34 AM

do yourself a favor and get a MS and WB02 first and get comfortable with it...once you do that then go ahead and get the S1 w/2560 and gradually upgrade your other components such as IC, clutch, exhaust etc.
That's how you play it safe.

MX5-4me 04-10-2008 10:53 AM

What these folks are telling is very good advice.. We put the turbo kit on 99 first and now we are having a hard time with my engine management. Do the Engine Management first..

I'm using a Greddy EMU on a 99 and it does not like the Rx7 550 cc Injectors during warm idle. I think the 99 ECU is fighting the EMU to get to 14.7 AFR but Iím not 100% sure.. Iím trying to source some smaller Injectors around 440 cc to see if that will help. As it stands now I wouldnít get the EMU for a 99+. That leaves the options below.

Hydra - expensive but worth it if you have the money to spend
AEM F/IC - Not sure if anyone has this working right on a 99 either
XEDE Ė I havenít done much research on this one.
MegaSquirt in Parallel - you need the OEM ECU to run A/C and Alternator you also need to source and 94-97 CAS as the MS isn't quite ready for the 99+ cam sensor

There might be others but i'm unaware of them.


Something I have been toying with is using a 96-97 MSPnP. DIY has the circuits to run the 99+ A/C. You would need to make a Patch harness going from a 99 harness to a 96-97 ECU, source a 94-97 CAS and alternator. This would put you in full stand alone MS and eliminate using two cam sensors. Again this is just something Iíve been thinking about and has in NO way been tested.


Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Stephanie Turner 04-10-2008 04:31 PM

BEGi should have a new Fuel AND Timing device for the 99+ cars soon. It would be the perfect complement to the low boost systems (on stock injectors). The test piece is on my car and runs perfectly. It still needs to be taken to the dyno for power #'s, but Corky is wanting to have it out in a month or so.
Stephanie

Serper3 04-11-2008 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braineack (Post 241024)
if you wanna reach your goal, I'd look into the S1 kit with the 2560 as your turbo. Then get someone to build you a piggyback Megasquirt or use the Xede.

i do want to reach that goal, but since thats a longer term goal, i dont really mind perhaps stepping up the turbo in a year or so maybe. i just want to play it safe, and have enough money for if/when somethig brakes. this is my dd car, so its important to me to be sure i can get the kit on wthin a fri-sun weekend. i think the s kit shouldnt be a prblem to do that with. i also really like the idea of s kit ince i would be getting the carb sticker just in case i have any issues with police etc. i also dont really want to run too much boost since i would prefer to hold off a few months before getting a new clutch and at that time i could do an ebay intercooler.

Quote:

Originally Posted by samnavy (Post 241035)
^Agreed.

You need to call Begi about how they configure the AFPR for your '99 returnless fuel system. And I'd really consider going to more of a DIY route to save money and investing in an ECU first. The 90-97 cars are better candidates for using an AFPR for fuel. Begi and FM both specifically recommend an ECU when going boosted on '99+. Perhaps initially purchase an Xede (comes with injectors), get it installed... then spend some time saving up and purchase your "S" system in 6 months, or continue to do homework and shop in the classifieds for used parts.

The "S" with 2560 and BOV will get you 7psi w/ECU. To go bigger, you're gonna need charge cooling. Being mechanically inclined, you should have no problem using eBay to buy an IC/Pipes/Coupler/BOV and mount them. Then you're good for about 15psi which should get you to 250whp on a '99.

Budget $400 for your clutch.

yea this is pretty much what i have in mind. i want to stay away from completly diy because i would really rather get a carb sticker since i am dding the car. as far as xede, i think i might be better off for now just running the begi fuel system, and then when i am doing the fmic, clutch, injectors i can also go for the megasquirt running paralel with my ecu.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MX5-4me (Post 241047)
What these folks are telling is very good advice.. We put the turbo kit on 99 first and now we are having a hard time with my engine management. Do the Engine Management first..

I'm using a Greddy EMU on a 99 and it does not like the Rx7 550 cc Injectors during warm idle. I think the 99 ECU is fighting the EMU to get to 14.7 AFR but Iím not 100% sure.. Iím trying to source some smaller Injectors around 440 cc to see if that will help. As it stands now I wouldnít get the EMU for a 99+. That leaves the options below.

Hydra - expensive but worth it if you have the money to spend
AEM F/IC - Not sure if anyone has this working right on a 99 either
XEDE Ė I havenít done much research on this one.
MegaSquirt in Parallel - you need the OEM ECU to run A/C and Alternator you also need to source and 94-97 CAS as the MS isn't quite ready for the 99+ cam sensor

There might be others but i'm unaware of them.


Something I have been toying with is using a 96-97 MSPnP. DIY has the circuits to run the 99+ A/C. You would need to make a Patch harness going from a 99 harness to a 96-97 ECU, source a 94-97 CAS and alternator. This would put you in full stand alone MS and eliminate using two cam sensors. Again this is just something Iíve been thinking about and has in NO way been tested.


Good luck and let us know what you decide.

LOL, i actually whent to a smallish miata meet today, and talked to a guy who had the greddy emu on his 99 and he also had lots of issues with it and ended up replacing it and going with the megasquirt.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephanie Turner (Post 241228)
BEGi should have a new Fuel AND Timing device for the 99+ cars soon. It would be the perfect complement to the low boost systems (on stock injectors). The test piece is on my car and runs perfectly. It still needs to be taken to the dyno for power #'s, but Corky is wanting to have it out in a month or so.
Stephanie

hey stephanie, i am not sure if you remember, but i called you on wednesday and i acualy inquired about the new fuel and timing device you are speaking of. what differences are their between it and the current begi fuel system? you also say it would be good for low boost applications.. what would be the most amount of boost it would be able to control? any possible future systems converting the system to a return style?
if i where to go with the s kit with the begi fuel system, can i just run the kit like that? i would also get a wideband o2 and a guage, a boost guage, for tuning purposes, but would i need something for timing control??! the begi fuel kit only comes with the fuel pump and the fmu...
gee lol, it might make more sense to just use the MS in parallel but then again, no carb sticker! :bang:
hmmmm i also just noticed... under the kit descriptions it reccomends using xede for 99+.. but for it to be carb u need the begi fuel system.. does this mean again, you are not tuning for spark?
ok sry guys lol. just did some more reading and found "For best results, we recommend using it in conjunction with an ignition timing device. ". "it" here being the begi fuel system.
my next question ofcourse is what happens if i dont run it with the ignition timing device? if like i order all the things mentioned above, the s kit, wideband and boost gauge, can i for a while run it with no timing device?
would their be anything else i should get, considering i am trying to avoid spending more money.:)
thanks alot though everyone. i really appreciate all the help. turboing and miatas is like a new world to me. i hope my questions arent total noob status though... thanks again btw for the quick replys really helping me out!

Zarniwoop42 04-11-2008 06:04 AM

go ahead and run it with no timing controll, just be sure to retard the timing, especially if you have no ic (i think 1degree per pound of boost?) the car will be slow as shit off boost, but the begi spools quick so it wont be too bad. Just dont turn up the boost

Stephanie Turner 04-11-2008 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serper3 (Post 241505)
hey stephanie, i am not sure if you remember, but i called you on wednesday and i acualy inquired about the new fuel and timing device you are speaking of. what differences are their between it and the current begi fuel system? you also say it would be good for low boost applications.. what would be the most amount of boost it would be able to control?

We have only tested it to 7 psi. The difference between the two: the BEGI FS is the fuel pump and FMU. It has not timing control device.

The new unit will do fuel and timing electronically. It can be wired in or sold with a PNP harness.

Quote:

any possible future systems converting the system to a return style?
It is not necessary to convert to 99+ systems to a return style in order to run the BEGi Fuel system. Leave it return less, it will work just fine.

Quote:

if i where to go with the s kit with the begi fuel system, can i just run the kit like that? i would also get a wideband o2 and a guage, a boost guage, for tuning purposes, but would i need something for timing control??!
Timing control is highly recommended for more than 5 psi. But the BEGi-S w/ BEGi Fuel system will work just fine.

Quote:

gee lol, it might make more sense to just use the MS in parallel but then again, no carb sticker! :bang:
If you use the MS as the timing control, it should be just fine.

Quote:

hmmmm i also just noticed... under the kit descriptions it reccomends using xede for 99+.. but for it to be carb u need the begi fuel system.. does this mean again, you are not tuning for spark?
We recommend that for the timing control. The new fueling device would work also. But it is not "CARB Legal" yet. But for the basic BEGi-S w/ BEGi FS, there is no spark control.
Stephanie

Serper3 04-11-2008 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephanie Turner (Post 241654)
We have only tested it to 7 psi. The difference between the two: the BEGI FS is the fuel pump and FMU. It has not timing control device.

The new unit will do fuel and timing electronically. It can be wired in or sold with a PNP harness.


It is not necessary to convert to 99+ systems to a return style in order to run the BEGi Fuel system. Leave it return less, it will work just fine.


Timing control is highly recommended for more than 5 psi. But the BEGi-S w/ BEGi Fuel system will work just fine.


If you use the MS as the timing control, it should be just fine.


We recommend that for the timing control. The new fueling device would work also. But it is not "CARB Legal" yet. But for the basic BEGi-S w/ BEGi FS, there is no spark control.
Stephanie

ok i guess i am just going to go the s kit route with the begi fuel system to have the carb sticker. then, in the next few months but no later than maybe 4... i am going to probably go megasquirt running parallel, with stock ecu, larger injectors, fmic the ebay route, some sort of bov/antisurge valve.

as far as me ordering the begi-s with the begi fs,
what else do i need to buy to get the kit tuned, and running etc at 5psi?
so far i have the wideband o2, boost guage.
for the wideband i have heard goo things about the aem eugo or w.e its called. seems like its not crazy expensive at a little over 200?
anything else i need/should need to consider?
thanks again stephanie and everyone else.


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