Going turbo on my NB, feedback plz
 

I'm fairly new to the forced induction side of vehicles, so bare with me. Here are the parts I will be getting...

BEGi Manifold for T28 internally wastegated turbo
BEGi Downpipe
*Ebay Special* (lawl) T25/T28 TD04 Turbo @ 8PSI
*Ebay Special* 27"x5.5"x2.5" FMIC
89-92 Toyota Supra 7MGE NA 305cc Injectors
Misc tubing/piping + oil/water lines

Is this about right? I'm trying to do this nicely, but very inexpensively at the same time.

Any input would be great, thanks. Also, I've read through pics & tutorials on this site about where to get the oil feed and return from, but where does one get the water feed & return? Pics plz :D Thnx

If your turbo is water cooling, you can simply tap the water line going into your thermostat housing. I believe I used 5/16 hose. Water can flow either way through the turbo.

Welcome to the forum.

Your list is missing a very important item: engine management. Injectors alone won't get you proper fueling. Insufficient fuel = BOOM.

???

The Greddy turbo setup on a 1.6 at 6psi doesn't need any additional management. Running stock 8psi with new injectors, should be enough I would think. The stock ECU on the NB 01+ handles somehwere up to 350cc injectors max, don't they? You don't think 305cc would be enough? I really don't want to have to mess with electronic crap, I hate doing that in cars.

greddy kit uses a fmu to add more fuel. if you don't add fuel like ben said boom. you need to add more fuel a lot more than you think. you need management

Ok, well what systems do folks recommend? Best bang-for-buck kinda deal. I'm not going to be running higher than 8psi as it's my daily driver as well.

Yes it comes with a "band aid" type management: a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. Then people get a bipes or msd box to retard timing. Or ditch the fpr and bipes in favor a programmable ecu (megasquirt, haltech, link, tec, aem, emanage, etc). Injectors alone = BOOM. The factory ecu doesn't know to fuel for the turbo.

Study the FM VooDooII turbo system. You'd be a good candidate.

So the Bipes ACU at BEGi's website will retard the timing and handle all that for me?

It's only $225 vs FM's Voodoo box which runs $415.

And I have looked at FM's turbo setups, and while they're really nice, I found them to be quite overpriced :\

NO. The bipes handles timing. The voodoo handles fuel. Those are different things!

The FM kit may have more upfront cost than a DIY setup, but it's pre engineered to be as foolproof as possible. Safe & Easy. Not inexpensive. You can't get everything.

Before you proceed, and since you've found the BEGi site already, buy a copy of Maximum Boost.

It's not fair to call it overpriced. I'll go to bat for FM even though they are not very popular here. Yes, the kit is more expensive than a capable/similar DIY system. But the $3k VooDooII is probably only $500 more than what a similar DIY system would cost. And, again, it's all engineered to fit and work with good technical support. Not to mention, all brand new name brand pieces with warranties. And, most importantly, there's very little chance of BOOM.

What's an M2 1.8l R&R worth?

So I'll need a device that retards timing & gives proper fuel. Or will just a voodoo box work?

You can't use the Bipes on a M2... IIRC FM sells a wheel you can mount on the Balancer and you can manually adjust timing...

You can use the JRPC or the VooDoo. They have been used on T25/T28 setups in the past. Neither will give you ignition control. You might look into the Emanage Blue w/ the larger injectors. You'll need to add a O2 clamp and a WBO2 to the list.

EMB w/Autotune is a pretty popular way to go around here.

Ok thanks for all the input so far guys! Makin my life easier, hah.

First, What is the EMB (emanage blue) w/ autotune?

Secondly, no one really answered wether i'd need to retard the timing AND get fuel control, or will just fuel control suffice on what i'm shooting for?

EDIT - Also, where might one attain these.

I have the Voodoo box, it's pretty simple. Adds fuel when you need it as it runs off a vacuum line. Built in 02 clamp. It has some adjustments that can only be determined with a wideband but there are base settings that work just fine. It's made to use all stock fuel system and run up to 8 psi.
This is on my '99, i would personally not go for a bandaid setup. I bought the car and it had this setup. I would go for a Megasquirt standalone system, it cost's around the same with all the goodies that a plane Voodoo box does new. But it will leave you with endless possibilities when it comes to injectors which opens up higher boost pressures as you progress in building the car up to what you want. If you never want to run more than 8 psi, the voodoo box is a simple bandaid for the fueling problem in NBs and can be had used for aroudn $2-300 usually when others upgrade. Keep your eyes open for one.

With a good Intercooler you may not need to change timing for a 5psi set up.
In which case you can just add the Voodoo or PC for fueling.

The VooDoo has the O2 clamp built in, otherwise you'll need to source one.

If you go with the Emanage Blue you can change timing/and fuel. you will be okay @ 5 psi with stock injectors.

If you go with the EMB you can buy the Autotune w/ O2 clamp from Bruce (olderguy).

For an WBO2, the LC-1 is pretty popular, and not very expensive. I have the Zeitronix ZT-2.

I just sold my Power Card (finally) for $160.00--shipping it tomorrow

My own experience
PC/ Voodoo -- very easy to install/ under 1/2 hour.
EMB -- very easy to install ~ 1 hour, then an hour or so more of setting up the software on a Win95 machine.
MS -- very easy to install ~ 1 hour (minus running and adding the sensors, gm coil packs and making those damn universal plug wires clip on to the plugs) And I at least 40 or more hours searching on-line and configuring the software and all the settings (I found the forums to not be very helpful, they are a ton of search nazis on there) I did sell it for more than I paid though :)

So you're running the EMB now Jefe?

This week :)

Actually both my P5 and Miata have it, the P5 has over 40k boosted with it, and I just threw one on the miata last spring. With a map sensor and good O2 clamp it seems to be a great set up.

Nice, I want to go Megasquirt in the '99 but the Emanage Ultimate is looking good just because of the ease of tuning and all with autotune. There isn't really a dino facility around me that I could get some good tuning on and if the megasquirt ruined my fun time i'd die. What's you're thought on the benefits of going either way?

Megasquirt has certainly come a long way in the miata community over the past year. (Definitely go for a parallel install) From the activity on the forum here I bet it would be a good alternative, but it still going to take some good book time to understand it, and software kills aren't my strong point.

Also if it's so great, then why are people still using other standalones?

I like the EMB because it can be installed easily, set up relatively easy (some steps are tricky but not impossible like upgrading to gold and moving the new files to inside the program files (that trips up alot of people)),
its not very expensive, and it works for apps I'm working with in. It's still just a band-aid :)

I would like to play around with the EMU sometime, I bet it's pretty cool.

I went fishing in Sitka last year, had a blast, returned w/ 80lbs of Salmon! yeah there is a 1/day limit, but my father had a resident license and I got to bring all 4 home :)

Ok, so I've pretty much settled on just going the voodoo box route and retarding the timing myself.

How much should I retard it? 6 degrees or so?

Also, will any 1.8L manifold fit the 01+ year NB's? Because I see many used ones on here, ebay, or miata.net classifieds. Just wondering before I buy...

nobody mentioned WI comeon people. You can run WI and get the power you seek. Without a aux timming controller. And supplement your fueling as well. The safc willl help you run bigger injectors and better drivability but it doesnt quite have the resolution of the other engine management solutions. There is one for sale in the classifieds. And we have a ongoing WI group buy these to together under 500 bucks with some biger injectors 350-400cc can make you some nice power, cheaply, safely, ingeniusly, and reliably.

I think the OP should start simple with lower hp goals and then work his way up. Remember this is on an 01 NB with higher compression. A bit less tolerant to boost. He can always add the WI after he gets the basic setup sorted out.

Frank

I was under the impression that manually retarding timing wasn't as easy on the NB miatas. Much more complicated than for us NA folk, right?

it requires cutting metal and/or plastic to move the crank trigger wheel or sensor.

If you're set on the voodoo box, FM also sells a modified crank trigger wheel that you can retard the timing up to 6* static (from 10*) and it works very well.

I have a '99 and am under the impression that the only way to change the timing on my car is to move the Crank Position Sensor relative to the wheel that it reads off the pulley and even then it is such a marginal change that it's not worth it. I run just the voodoo box with no other timing control without problem.

actually moving the crank sensor does change the timing just like on the NA cars. I've got the adjustable bracket as well that used to come with the older JRSC kits that remounts it to the other side of the crank and has a slot that you can move the sensor to change the timing as you see fit. It worked fine and I could even advance the timing if I wanted to but I leave my car at stock timing with 93 octane and 6psi boost with no intercooler as of now.

Ok, well I've also heard of some folks with miatas not having to adjust timing. I'll just get a voodoo box and if I get any knock after everything is setup I'll worry about timing then.

What about the manifold(s) :(

are you planning on having the EGR hooked up? I know the 01+ and the 99/00 had different sized fittings for them but if thats something you don't need to worry about then most of the 1.8 manifolds should fit fine.

Do I need to keep the EGR hooked up?

Will I get a CEL if it's not?

yeah you'll get a CEL if you don't

Ok cool, I can live with a CEL ;) So I probably wont need the EGR.

Now, another question, what the heck is a v-band outlet on a turbo? I notice some T3's for sale have them, it looks as if a standard 2.5" pipe would fit on it...