High intake temps?
 

It's been getting hotter here in so cal (not super hot though) and I think my setup is being affected by it quite heavily.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f639928869.png

This is a single pull and as you can see intake temps get pretty high. And with the MAT based timing retard I'm out like 3 degrees by 135F. Are these normal temps? Ambient temp is only like 83F and cruising temps stay around 90-95F. Maybe that eBay intercooler I got an inter-heater or something. This is on a 2554R btw.

I have a thread on the same exact thing. You need a better intercooler. Probably that core does not have turbulators internally. My vibrant 12800 which is a decent intercooler also lacks internal turbulators and it heatsoaks pretty quick although not nearly as bad as yours is.

I went full baller and bought a Garrett 24x6.5x3 core with cast endtanks. Should be here by next week and I'm expecting it to make a pretty big difference

I'll go post my data there. Are there any currently known "ebay intercoolers" that people are buying? I checked out the sticky post, all the links there don't work anymore. and I'm unsure if it's good or not. Or do I have to go baller?

The new vibrant stuff is better than the older one that I have, treadstone is also good. They are much better than eBay cores.

What intercooler are you using now? Has the car been on a dyno at current boost levels? When you reach the limit of what the turbo can flow you start making a ton of heat. If that's the case a better intercooler won't really help you. Can you turn the boost down a couple psi and get another log?

Looks like he's hitting 11.4psi, that's not out of the turbos efficiency, or shouldn't be. Maybe he's got a boost leak and it's spinning the compressor higher and heating it that way. Or maybe that intercooler just sucks ass.

I'll check em out. Thanks!

Ebay intercooler :giggle: I've run tests at night and temps peaked at like 102F. That was around like 60-70F ambient temp. Car has never been dynod, just virtual dyno. I've seen changes of about 20-30whp though with different air temps at the same boost levels. 10psi is a similar story. I think the ambient temp was a little higher on this day though.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c4f867541b.png

Oh hey I didn't think to check boost leaks. Duh, I'll check for some tomorrow morning.

I'm also assuming he's at 11.4 psi. This is an NB1 but only 10 psi. https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-tim...t2554r-101172/ He made 223 whp, and if you look at the 2554r compressor map its pretty much tapped out. So a 2554r on a miata could potentially be out of its efficiency range at 11.4 psi.

I'm not definitively saying he's out of turbo, but I think in his case he's close enough that it should be investigated before assuming the intercooler is insufficient.

Yep that intercooler is garbage. A 65 degree swing on 10 psi is pretty damning evidence. Do some research on what to look for in an ebay intercooler. You selected pretty much the worst style.

:rofl: That's tough. Well, I'll check for boost leaks, if there's none then I'll start looking at new ones. Bar and plate atleast right?

That's a good start.

:bowdown: I'll go google

Get yourself a precision 350. Done.

:burncash:

ebay intercooler.

There's your problem.

Something that actually works will be able to hold your IAT at about 10 to 20 degrees above whatever ambient is in most cases.

If you are going to do an ebay intercooler, find one that has a picture looking in one of the ports and see if it has dense tuebulators. My ebay one was a whole $70 and I haven't seen anything above 30F above ambient running 10psi on a TD04L-13T.

Heck, I would have to check logs, but even with my air heater JRSC spinning at 17krpm (way over spinning) I was only seeing the kinds of temperature rises you are seeing with the turbo. (60-70F over ambient)

I'm leaning towards ebay again.

How do these look?
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...dd8eb04d6c.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...7233fd2edb.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...852ec39e06.jpg


Did you get that one that deezums found?

That second picture is what you want to see, yeah. I don't remember what I got, I thiiink a 27.5x2.5x7 or something like that? It has three mount points on the top and the inlet and outlet are towards the bottom.

Yeah, I can't find a bar/plate with those dimensions (I probably didn't look hard enough). Either way, do you have pics or know what your turbulators looked like? Were they similar to that second pic I linked? I might just end up getting that one.

The Vibrant 12800 as of 2017 or so has the newer core design with turbulators. I have it and wasn't seeing more than 45c (sorry do the math) at the track at summer.

Oh hey, that's like $60 more than the ebay one, and its on amazon with prime. I might get that one.... Do you get heatsoaking issues like andyfloyd metioned?

EDIT: Kind of a dumb question, you were at the track, duhh. Is that the same core as the Fab9 intercooler?

I only get heatsoak because I have the older core before they upgraded it. Also I'm making 350hp and running 22psi so there's that.

Yep same as fab9.

Is that core really the same as Fab9? Why on earth do they charge an extra $100? is the difference really only the mounting tabs they weld on? If that's so, then I'm canceling my order with them.

Because it's fab9 and it's overpriced and they will ship it 3 years later?

I understand that completely. I placed my order for their stage 69 interkooler a month ago

Seriously? It's been Month???? Wow. They suck dude. I mean I like having vendors that do Miata parts and we don't want to run them off. But it's like what the hell are they doing?

To be fair, they've been very communicative with the whole process. They stated they've been waiting to receive cores from Vibrant. They blamed a lot of it due to COVID delaying shipments, which I understand. Nonetheless, if their cores really are the same as the amazon link above, albeit with some tabs welded on, I'll take my business elsewhere.

Oh they are exactly the same. Hah

Ah ok, shouldn't be a problem with my setup I hope. Would the 12800 be overpowered for a sub 300hp Miata (200-250whp)? Or is the 350hp rating the max the intercooler can support?

Just get that one. It will fit you well.

Watch the MAT based retard. Pulling extra timing creates incredible heat in the exhaust manifold and turbo and causes failures. Pulling three degrees by 135 is excessive. EGT shooting up is bad.

Your exhaust studs and turbine oil seal will thank you. Ask me how I know.

Will take a look at the MAT based retard. I thought that was just a precaution for boosted cars though?

I checked for boost leaks. I have a ton it seems, can barely hold pressure. Maybe I won't have to buy a new intercooler. Major leaks seem to be the Ebay bov (go figure) and the iscv hose that the NA's have. I will get those fixed soon but my alternator just crapped out on me so I'll be fixing that first.

I really like my CRXRacing intercooler. I don't really understand what kind of magic special sauce makes one unit cost way more than another. But look at it next to a FM intercooler. It is a beast. As long as you don't heat soak it, it should (and does) work really well.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e80e551a2d.jpg

I've fixed pretty much every boost leak I could fine except my blow-off valve. Like I said its an eBay knockoff so go figure. My alternator comes in on Friday so I'll post an update on intake temps around then to see if the leaks were bad enough. Thanks for the help guys.

Off-topic, but for blow-offs I've seen people running the Bosch diverter valve. What does it sound like when set up as a blow off? I can't really find any videos of the sound and I'm quite fond of the sounds the knock off is making :giggle:

It has kind of a fluttery whoosh noise. Just dream that up in your head.

I have a Bosch and it makes a loud Poooosssshhh! It also holds over 20psi without any problems, verified with the leak tester linked above.

Just be sure to attach it correctly. Many people connect it incorrectly and experience leaks. It is designed for boost to enter what you might think is the side rather than the "bottom." Most people don't read the directions/charts.

I would say Piiiiiiiiiisssshhhhh. Just sounds like it's doing its job... releasing compressed air to atmosphere. No whistles, or flutters, or songs. If you want Dixie, there are horns for that.

It is also a demonstration that a well designed recirc / blow-off does not need to be tuned with springs as such for different boost levels. The differential pressure between the manifold and the charge pipes makes it work. Simple, yet effective.

DNM

Thanks for the descriptions guys, lol. I'll probably pick one up if I find mine is junk.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...eb03c8414a.png

Just got back from testing with the fixed boost leaks. I think the results speak for themselves, it was about 92F outside. :facepalm: I'll probably grab that precision 12800 soon when I get the balls to drive around with a shiny intercooler filling the mouth of the car in Cali.

I got another question regarding the compressor efficiency. I've been meaning to fab up my 3" exhaust system but have been putting it off. As of right now its a 3" downpipe mated directly to a 2.25" stock midpipe and ends under the car. Would that affect efficiency at all? I'd assume so? Maybe partially?

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...60a8286429.jpg
i just fitted my 475hp Garrett core. It's a perfect fit for NB nose. 34x6.5x3. IAT went from peaking @ 130-140F with vibrant 12800 to 101F with the Garrett. The Garrett core is insanely good and that's 22psi from a gtx2860 gen2. Happy with how it turned out. Don't be afraid to go big.

Also with a 2.25" exhaust you are severely limiting your power. I think an easy +20whp will be achieved with a 3". Also you'll spool faster

Yeah, I figured there was a good portion of power left up on the table. Where did you get your intercooler? I'm curious to how much that garret one was. Or did you buy the core and fab up the endtanks?

ATP turbo sells them in two flavors one is 400hp core, 28x6.5x3 and the other is the core I went with. $475 and $575 respectively but it's the best intercooler you can get. I did​ my​ research. The Garrett stuff is just really good.

Endtanks are part of the cost they come welded on and ready to rock.

:burncash: DAMN. I'll take a look but my wallet probably won't. But those temps are fantastic! Thanks for the info. I'll probably end up going with the Precision core one. I might just fab up my exhaust first and drive the car in the evenings for now or something. It doesn't have AC anyways lul. Thanks for the help yall, once I get a new intercooler I'll post some temps in this thread or the other one regarding the IAT temps.

OP, you don't need a $600 intercooler. Buy a good ebay intercooler and spend the rest on exhaust. I spent less than $125 for a perfectly adequate intercooler for my application, and I'm asking much more from mine than you are from yours.

Always do your own research.

I know I went overboard but I have always wanted a Garrett and it's probably the last intercooler I'm ever gonna need unless it gets destroyed somehow.

Boost is a measure of backpressure and inefficiency. It will make significantly less heat for the intercooler to exchange if you open the exhaust.

Interesting, I'm curious as to how much IAT will change with a 3in system. I'll be fabbing that before I get a new intercooler to get some data on it.

Just an update. 3in exhaust helped quite a bit with intake temps. I can go through a couple of gears before temps hit like 140F unlike before where regardless of what gear I was doing the pull it'd just spike to 130F+. Vibrant 12800 is coming later this week so I'll post some data with that intercooler once I get the chance.

Just know with the Vibrant 12800 mounting location is key. If you have it to far forward in the mouth you will block airflow and cause over heating issues.

I was gonna place it (hopefully) where my old intercooler was. It sat right in front of the AC condenser. How does pushing it too far forward affect coolant temps? Is it the low pressure zone it creates in the big gap?

If its to far forward in the mouth it blocks air from getting around and to the radiator. You want air to pass through the intercooler and around it to the radiator.

It is just something to watch out for when you get it in and start mounting.

Gotcha, I'll watch out for it. Thanks

Air getting to the radiator is much more important than through the intercooler is what he is saying.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...62ce879bcb.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a677bacf50.jpg

Vibrant came in today. Vibrant vs crackhead eBay shit. Really glad I pulled it out. Really scary looking. Will post data soon.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e7464c5555.png

Brackets fabbed up and the IC is mounted. Gonna do test drives soon, but midday is like 105F+ weather so I can't really get any runs comparing to the older intercooler cause of temp difference. Plus no AC....

Just got back from a quick drive on a 90F day. WOW

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...91bd6e0ef2.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...265302112b.png

Take a guess which ones the Vibrant...

Both runs are on wastegate pressure and the vibrant made more boost. So I guess the old intercooler had larger of a pressure drop? Or more of a restriction? Anyway, a 3-degree difference between ambient and intake temps is insane. Also, this is without any ducting on the car so maybe adding some will help more. Thanks for the recommendation guys.
:bigtu: