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Homebrew Diy Budget Build
Hey @ all,
soooo Im up to a new fun project... Bet my brother i could turbocharge my Na Miata with under 100 usd.... With random stuff ive got laying arround in my garage from other builds in my past.... So Ive started the build and would like some input from you guys just in case ive forgotten something... Speclist so far: Rewelded Stock NA Manifold K03 KKK Turbocharger Baily 2 Piston BOV Cometic Triple plate Head gasket Apexi SAFC 2 305 CC Toyota Injectors Downpipe Oil Feed Oil Return Nissan Skyline Gtst intercooler Intercooler Pipes... So far so good... any suggestions? :D ... Im not a noob to turbocharging cars i just wanted to prove a point... aiming for like 160 hp. so i think ill do fine with like 8 psi of boost! I Plan on retarding the ignition a couple degrees and fill it with "Ultimate" Fuel (102 oct.) Will pull my Wideband AFM from my Rx7 to check and set A/R Ratio... and i guess i should be good... |
Before you get flamed and destroyed, how far does 100 USD go where you are? I'm guessing you are not in the U.S.
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This is a just for fun project... parts are allready lying around in my garage so no cost... that was the point of the whole idea... just take all spare parts flying arround and make a kit from scratch... still have lots and lots of stuff of skylines / Rx7s and Supras....
Ive built and am currently racing an FD Rx7 with a holset charger and 800 + whp .... i just wanted to let you in in my fun weekend adventure :) ... So no hate guys.... will post pics tomorrow... today i had some stuff to do on my daily driver so i just disassembled the miatas enginebay and so ill start fabricating and installing tomorrow... Point is it all started with a crack in my stock manifold... had a look for spare parts and they were 150 usd plus here in germany so i said as a joke f*?! it with that money i can turbo my miata ... instead of just change the manifold... and so it began : D Just to stay clear I DO NOT BELIEVE that anyone else could boost their miata with that kind of money.... its just that i have all parts aside just sitting there and not being used.... and i know a MS would be awesome but thats not the point... this is just a spare part turbo build... and im having fun with the build :D |
The Apexi is sketchy, but Concealer will love you for it, and if the AFRs are good, I suppose why not. I'm assuming you aren't expecting MS level performance out of a $100 build anyways.
If you have good compression, I wouldn't bother with the head gasket, OEM head gaskets are known to be good to high numbers of power, so don't worry about swapping them. |
Actually, this could be fun. Build the absolute cheapest turbo Miata possible, and see how it runs.
In for progress pics. And cat pics. You DO have cat pictures, right? |
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yeah thanks for the input guys.... stock headgasket is actually fine... just had the 3ple gasket hanging on my wall since 2007 when we turbocharged my brothers NB .... and never actually installed it due to him selling the car ...BUT ill take the advice and leave it aside as it saves me a couple of hours worth of work.
Yeah i know the SAFC is not very good but as you said ... im not wanting to push crazy numbers.... or even close to high performance :) and i think the safc will do just fine for a low boost setup... And guys to be honest ive spend the last 2 years working on cars for customers and on our Rx7 / Supra / Skyline's ... and it has been a lot of fun, trouble and pain... and it sure is nice for a change to work on something much more simple than Rx7's and Supra's :) ... brings the old times back and is much easier :D ...and also less back pain with small turbos... This will be fun ill keep you guys posted :) Oh and sry @ dieselmiata ... heres your cat pic: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1412201631 This is CAT... thats her name actually... my gf found her on the streets in greece as a dying kitten and send me a picture on my phone and asked what to do.... well long story short we took her ... and i couldnt come up with a name... so i called her cat... and as weeks passed and i got used to cat.... it stayed cat.... |
~15 years ago I installed larger injectors into my turbocharged 1995 Escort GT (1.8 BP) and used an S-AFC (2nd gen I think) to pull fuel at idle and low throttle. It worked even better after I substituted a MAP sensor in place of the throttle input. If you aren't looking for more than 14.7 psi, grab a MAP sensor and tune for it instead. That way, fuel will follow the pressure increase instead of your throttle input. The other thing you'll want is an O2 sensor clamp so the OEM ECU doesn't try to pull fuel. I didn't use one and there were some times when I could tell the ECU was fighting and there would be a dead, lean spot before sudden acceleration. I only had a narrow band A/F meter and tuned using that and the EGT temps. Weirdly, the engine lasted but most likely because I was running rich, too rich for maximum power but it ran pretty well and was cheap! Only time I ran it at a drag track I repeatedly hit 97 mph and low 14s in the quarter mile with poor traction off the line (all season tires) and slow reaction and 60 ft. times. I had a hybrid Mazda GTX turbo and Thunderbird cold side but the thing was TINY and restrictive. Power started dropping off around 5500-6000 RPM.
...just a thought. These days I wouldn't mess with the S-AFC since there are inexpensive ECUs that work MUCH better. In the late 90s there weren't many options and they were all quite expensive and complicated to tune. |
Hey, what the hell! You've got the parts. Why not use em? In for cat pics and $100 turbo debauchery.
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Thanks a lot for the info! Ive got a spare map sensor of an FC3s Rx7 so i guess ill try and use that ... to be honest i would never spend money on a safc... i have messed around with them for quite some years.. when i first started modifying cars they were pretty common in greece...I even remember buying one for my brother for his NB Turbo setup .... BIG MISTAKE... resold it immediatly and went with a ms1... as the only thing we were bothered about was fuel...but after learning abit about ignition and how important it can be ... the safc only does a halfa*s job... you would have to spend at least the same amount of money again for an ignition controller...plus thats just a very small portion of what else you miss out on with a piggyback... and with that summed up you could buy a MS or similiar.... its just not worth spending money on that route... there is no point... and i can not state this enough.... as i know a lot of newbie people get on here who get excited and try to do it the same way im going to do it after i prove my point and it works...
. DO NOT DO THIS! Dont build a setup like im doing! Do it the right way... I just have to much time on my hands... a lot of turbo parts in my garage from past projects... and i am trying to win a bet...aaand Im running a car business so if anything goes wrong i have no problem with pulling the engine... and even if everything goes "ok" .... Ill propably remove the engine in a couple of weeks and do it right all over again... This is just supposed to be a fun project and i like challanges :) and winning :D |
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Seriously ... whats up with those cat pics? Why is everyone requesting cat pics? Is that a thing now?
... ah what the hell... one more untill i take some pics of the car ... https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1412208552 |
A head gasket from an NB won't work. If you're trying to put a 3-ply NB 1.6 head gasket on an earlier 1.6 engine, you might be the first to venture that territory, just an FYI.
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really?? Is there so much difference from na 1.6 to nb? I once sold an NB Head to some guy with an NA ....he swore it would fit with no issues... but as said earlier i guess ill leave it aside for now... and focus on the rest... but im still interested in what differences there are from NA to NB B6 block...
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Originally Posted by KyriakosGr
(Post 1172228)
Seriously ... whats up with those cat pics? Why is everyone requesting cat pics? Is that a thing now?
... ah what the hell... one more untill i take some pics of the car ... I like this thread. 99% of "budget" builds are broke kids masquerading as just fucking around when they are dead serious about trying to slap together ebay turbos and taking shortcuts because of a lack of money/education. And then they get pissed when their shit blows up. You seem genuine about doing this as a "Don't try this at home/trying to win a bet" build knowing full well it will probably blow up. Can't wait to see this thing "running". |
In for a good story. I plan on going boost in the spring so hopefully a build will inspire me.
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Originally Posted by jkspeed
(Post 1172241)
In for a good story. I plan on going boost in the spring so hopefully a build will inspire me.
In for results and a win of the bet! Keith |
$100 you say?
look no further for inspiration! The FrankenMiata Geek Hub > MotoIQ - Automotive Tech, Project Cars, Performance & Motorsports |
Think I have a JR boost timing controller that may work for you. I'll look into it. I'll hook you up for just shipping if it won't break your budget. Let me check it out and I'll get back to you if you are interested.
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@williams805
Yessss that would be awesome :) ... So i got some work done today, didnt have too much time though as i had other stuff to take care of unfortunatly... anyways i mocked up a ghetto turbomanifold of oem manifold parts :) Turbo is sitting good enough clearance for downpipe and whatever... the brake line is quite near the exhausthousing but i will isolate that just to be sure... I had kind of bad luck today as my welding tip was bend and as i was in a hurry i did not get a new one so it was a pain in the ass to weld everything up ... f*/+ed a few spots up a couple of time... grinded over and welded again... and again and again.... well atleast now the welds are ok and i think im going to paint it black with manifold spray just to not catch all the looks with the rust / shiny grind combo effect that looks hideous ... also checked for an intercooler route... Oil feed is done ... need to tap the oilpan next and weld the downpipe ... https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1412264860 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1412264860 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1412264860 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1412264860 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1412264860 ps... sorry for the dusty pics but im also working on the rear fenders and grinding the hell out of em ... so my whole garage is a bit dusty at the moment :) |
Lmao, this is sick. In for more progress!
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Originally Posted by curly
(Post 1172191)
The Apexi is sketchy, but Concealer will love you for it, and if the AFRs are good, I suppose why not. I'm assuming you aren't expecting MS level performance out of a $100 build anyways.
If you have good compression, I wouldn't bother with the head gasket, OEM head gaskets are known to be good to high numbers of power, so don't worry about swapping them. I won't love the SAFC, because it's unlikely to operate on the same voltage range as the oem MAF/AFM/whatever the fuck OP's car had from factory. They don't work well on Mazdas. Period. Oh wait, this is a 1.6 car? SAFC definitely won't work well, then. SAFC wants 0-5v. Mazda flappers aren't anywhere close to that range. |
seriously? Never thought about that... last time i used an safc was in a Nissan Almera of a friend... and then the nissan skyline my brother bought... it came with the car... tweaked abit got sick of it and swapped to a power fc... well we will see how it goes if i cant do shit with the safc ill figure something else out...
Got some more work done today... welded a downpipe... Installed the 305 injectors... and worked some more on my rear feders.. its a national holyday today so no shops open... as i need a few bits like fittings and clamps and stuff it slowed me down a bit today :( BUT i hope to have everything together tomorrow up and running and maybe tuned... as the only thing missing now is the intercooler and the oil drain pipe / Tuning... Im having a lot of fun with this build :)... Ill see if i can get the safc to work if not ... ill figure something else out... pics willl follow tomorow :) |
I hope you're not counting beer in that $100 budget or you're fucked
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Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1172688)
I won't love the SAFC, because it's unlikely to operate on the same voltage range as the oem MAF/AFM/whatever the fuck OP's car had from factory.
They don't work well on Mazdas. Period. Oh wait, this is a 1.6 car? SAFC definitely won't work well, then. SAFC wants 0-5v. Mazda flappers aren't anywhere close to that range. The real problem with the VAF flapper door meter is that it reads near then end of the voltage range at WOT. It was 15+ years ago so my memory is fuzzy but when running larger injectors, the S-AFC can lean out the mixture at idle. Unfortunately, there is NO room for adding fuel once the throttle is at 100% and the VAF door fully opens. When the VAF door opens, voltage is close to either 0 or 5 volts leaving very little room for the S-AFC to further lower or raise voltage to fool the ECU into injecting more fuel. Installing a MAP sensor in place of the throttle input removes the throttle at 100% problem and allows fuel settings to continue to change with pressure differential. Finally...I dredged up an old post where I was debating the ECU control strategies that Mazda used. I owned the factory Mazda manuals from which I pulled the information you'll read in the discussion. My posts start at message #15, username "95EGTturbo" Piggybacks - Mazda3Club.com I hope this helps. I'll see if I can't dredge up the settings I used in the S-AFC setup menu. Jess |
I cannot find anywhere that I wrote about the S-AFC settings for the airflow meter. That looks like it might be your most difficult issue. Plus, I was using the 1st generation. I don't know what changed with the second generation.
Anyway, here is more information that may help you tune your S-AFC: Apexi S-AFC and 460cc injectors - MX-5 Miata Forum S-AFC - MX-5 Miata Forum AFC's - MX-5 Miata Forum Why isn't anyone using the Apexi S-AFC? - MX-5 Miata Forum Having an idea about fueling a turbo car. - MX-5 Miata Forum Rx7 afm to Miata adjustments - MX-5 Miata Forum Feedback for my custom AFC project - Page 5 |
Would this blow your budget? This would certainly help if you end up using the S-AFC!
https://www.miataturbo.net/miata-par...d-conus-81259/ |
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Wow... Jesse99James thank you so much for all that info!
Ill browse through all those sites tonight to take all the info i need and ill set the SAFC up tomorrow... I had the car start today with and checked for leaks... non found so thats good :D ... car starts and runs as usual... so all good... Checked the piping, installed the oil return... so hardware is good to go now ... Tomorrow ill install and setup the SAFC and a spare turbo timer i have :D And maybe a bee*r rev limiter... aaand my Defi Boost Gauge... and take the AEM wideband + gauge out of the rx for tuning... I still have not spent 1 dollar so i guess its still in the budget and it seems like a good investment Ill check into it! Detail Pics will follow when im done and have actualy time to take some proper pics until then... one more snapshot ... https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1412438576 |
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Okay everybody ...
Sooo bet is over! I Won :) Car drives and boosts fine... The Apexi SAFC 2 combined with a map sensor works quite ok! Car is running on 10 psi temps and AFRs are totally fine... Its actually quite fun to drive and im pleased with the outcome considering the budget :D https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1412717836 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1412717836 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1412717836 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1412717836 Soooo bet is won and its time for a conclusion... Sofar i spent about 20 usd. .... for fittings and cableties and stuff like that... BUT Lets have a look from another view... I know quite a few people might see this thread and think "wow its easy and cheap as hell to boost a miata"... So ive made a partslist with aftermarket prices of the basic parts i threw in that car that i had over in my garage... Apexi SAFC2 150-200 USD DEFI Gauge 150 USD MR2 Injectors 50 USD Turbocharger (100-??? USD) Manifold (homemade costs for Argon / cutting and grinding disks / flange 20-30 USD) Downpipe (Flange / piping / cutting and grinding disks / Flange 30-40 USD) Intercooler (50-??? USD) Intercooler Piping (70-??? USD) Oil Feed with fittings and braided hose (30-50 USD) Oil Returnline with fittings and braided hose / drill bit for the Oil pan ( 30-50 USD) BOV dualpiston (80 - ??? USD) well and the list goes on ... so the cheapest way to do a turbo conversion that wont blow on startup would be about 800 USD and the car would NOT run quite as good as on a proper build... As i said im pleased with the outcome and its driveable and quite fun to drive but far away from a good build... I would still need an O2 Clamp! And an ignition controller ... so thats another 300-400 USD So in total you would have to spent about 1200 USD for a kit made out of used parts for it to be still OK running!!! Sooo i think this is a piece of good advice to listen to all the folks on this club bashing on everyone who tries to go the bandaid route as it is not even partially worth it!!! As i said before im pretty pleased with the outcome... even so pleased that now that ive won the bet... ill blow my budget to make it a proper turbo car! So now instead of spending another 300 usd on ignition controllers and O2 Clamps ill just sell the SAFC and go with an MS box... summed up it would end up costing the same but run a lot better and leaving a lot more room for tuning and optimization.... There is literaly NO POINT in going the bandaid route in the end! Well its late here and ive got to get up early in the morning so thats that... just wanted to let you guys know that i did not abondon the thread :D and Thanks again to everyone who fed me with info :) ... |
Props for following through. That went better than expected.
Now post videos of it hooning! |
Originally Posted by KyriakosGr
(Post 1173747)
Apexi SAFC2 150-200 USD
I would still need an O2 Clamp! And an ignition controller ... so thats another 300-400 USD Props though, now put in a megasquirt :) |
I would like to hear her spool as well. Congrats!
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Originally Posted by KyriakosGr
(Post 1173747)
Okay everybody ...
Sooo bet is over! I Won :) Car drives and boosts fine... The Apexi SAFC 2 combined with a map sensor works quite ok! Car is running on 10 psi temps and AFRs are totally fine... Its actually quite fun to drive and im pleased with the outcome considering the budget :D *snip* So now instead of spending another 300 usd on ignition controllers and O2 Clamps ill just sell the SAFC and go with an MS box... summed up it would end up costing the same but run a lot better and leaving a lot more room for tuning and optimization.... There is literaly NO POINT in going the bandaid route in the end! Exactly as expected, 15-20 years ago separate ignition/fuel controllers were a bargain compared to aftermarket ECUs of the time. With the PNP Megasquirt and ease of tuning, there is no reason to use them other than to prove a point and win a bet. :cool: |
thats gonna be hard to do with less then $100. If ya got the stuff laying around, then go for it!
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Originally Posted by mjcerisano
(Post 1175929)
thats gonna be hard to do with less then $100. If ya got the stuff laying around, then go for it!
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Matt here wants to sell something it would seem
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