How much HP does it take......
12-26-2011, 03:45 PM
#43
Maybe a little off topic, but my car was lowered ~2" with stock endlinks for awhile, and they pre-loaded the rear bar a bit. After recently getting proper adjustable endlinks, and taking out that preload. I've noticed I don't launch as hard from a dig. Maybe something to look into.
Also, IMO, HP/Traction issues very dependent on control of your right foot
Also, IMO, HP/Traction issues very dependent on control of your right foot
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-1
-1
12-26-2011, 04:44 PM
#44
Maybe a little off topic, but my car was lowered ~2" with stock endlinks for awhile, and they pre-loaded the rear bar a bit. After recently getting proper adjustable endlinks, and taking out that preload. I've noticed I don't launch as hard from a dig. Maybe something to look into.
Also, IMO, HP/Traction issues very dependent on control of your right foot
Also, IMO, HP/Traction issues very dependent on control of your right foot
Off the line traction problems? Planning on going drag racing? Don't have the black death? READ THIS:
Here's a few items that I copied from the another forum that I frequent (if any of it helps, please send thanks to the Supra forums), most of them apply to us as well:
Concepts:
When you launch your car from a stop there are two main things going on. Transfer of weight from the front to the rear and then hooking. If you want a better launch, you need to optimize both of these.
Working the Clutch:
There simply is no excuse for the “bog” or “sit and spin” if you’ve driven your manual car for more than a month.
Every single day you can get tons of practice launching. Every single stop light, every single stop sign. I’m not telling you to stage like you’re at the track and try and burn rubber like a madman. I am telling you to figure out what your clutch setup likes. You can launch hard and still be perfectly legal on the street. You drive your car, so get to know how it drives.
Most of the time, launching at the track is just like regular driving. The speed that you release the clutch pedal during normal driving, is the same speed you release it while launching at the track. Thinking you have to rev and then just dump the clutch is why people sit and spin or bog. Bring your revs up high, and release the clutch the same speed as if you were easing away from a stop light. This works with most clutch setups. But like I said earlier, get to know how your car launches. You should know how to work your clutch for good launches before you ever goto the track.
Boost from the line:
Boosted Manual cars have a big disadvantage at the track. No boost from the line. This is easy to cure. It’s called a two-step, or rev limiter. You step on the gas and the two-step will artificially limit your revs at a lower level (you usually set this at your launch rpm. You should know your launch rpm because you have practiced and know what works). This loads the engine and you will get boost. Launch and shut off the two step. There you go, manual car with boost from the line. It can mean the difference between starting out with over a hundred or more horsepower from a turbo that’s actually spooled up.
If you are serious about dragging with a manual, you need to get a rev limiter/two step.
You can get it running with the MSD DIS-4PN 6215, Dis-4. It will also require 2 of the PN 8912 Adapters. Theres another one that works but I cant remeber it right now. I'll put the info in when I remeber it.
Here's what a 2step sounds/looks like if you have never heard/seen one. It basicly just sounds like hitting the rev limiter like normal. This is duane building boost at the line and whuppin a mk4. Funny Videos, Funny Pictures, Flash Games, Jokes
Power shifting
WARNING – This can **** up your tranny with a quickness. But if you just need that extra 0.1-0.3 you can do it.
Power shifting is when you keep your foot planted on the gas and barely, barely, barely, touch the clutch pedal just to release the clutch, then jam it into the next gear with your foot already off the clutch pedal. It is very fast and will keep your turbo spooled. But it’s rough as **** on the transmission.
I personally don’t recommend it because to me a grenaded tranny isn’t worth a time difference that could be attributed to standard deviation anyways.
Suspension set up:
Sway bar / End links:
I keep saying this but people aren’t listening. When at the track, disconnect the front sway bars. This goes back to the original concept that I talked about earlier. Transfer of weight to the rear of the vehicle. With the front sway bar disconnected it allows freer movement of the front suspension. Lets weight shift occur easier. Disconnecting the front sway bar is de facto standard in pretty much most auto enthusiast groups aside from the moron import crowd.
Don’t drive to the track with them disconnected though. That wont be fun. Also before you do this at the track, disconnect them once or twice and drive around your neighborhood to get a feel for what its like with them off. You don’t want to get squirrelly down the track your first time with them off. Know how it drives.
With adjustable end links it’s makes unattaching the front bar a breeze. Just disconnect the lower tie on the tie bar. It also allows you to adjust your rear sway bar to fine tune your launch. There are one or two places that sell them I think. Or you can just make your own. I made my own as seen below:
Camber:
If you dropped your car, you now more than likely have negative camber. When you launch an IRS car, the camber moves to the negative. If you are already there, launching just makes your tires have a small little contact patch. This is a big reason why you dropped folks launch so shitty. Yeah your JDM dorifto million degrees of negative camber crap looks cool (to you), but it sucks for launching. Dial in a degree or two of positive camber before you go to the track. When you launch you ideally want zero camber, a flat contact patch. So if you are just a degree or two positive before you launch, when it squats you zero out. Perfect.
Shocks/springs/coilovers
This is really something you just need to adjust and test for yourself. For some people hard front soft rear works better for them, for others vice versa. There are just too many different combos to tell you exactly what to do. I will tell you not to go full hard all around. It goes back to the original concept. You want weight to be able to shift to the back, then you want to hook.
Try starting out with the front abit harder than the rear. Then work from there. If you mess with the ride height, make sure you adjust the camber.
Rims and Tires:
Sorry, but those low profile 17s just aint gonna cut it.
The second part of the concept is hooking. Without decent tires, the best suspension in the world won’t mean crap. If you are serious about dragging, you need to go back to 15s. You just cant get good drag tires in 17+.
Spend the 300 bucks on some nice fat quality drag radials or slicks. Only run them at the track. If this means buying an extra set of rims, then so be it. Some 225 slicks will hook better than some 315 street tires. So just drop the coin.
Nice big sidewalls are what you want. This allows the tire to flex and hook. Check the drag racing section to see what kind of success people are having with certain brands and certain compounds. If in doubt, go stickier.
If you have to run on street tires, don’t do a burn out. Street tires don’t work like drag tires. Getting them hot makes them slick. Just a quick spin to get the dirt off is all you need. Also, DRIVE AROUND the burnout box. You’re not doing a burnout anyways. By driving through it you’re just sloshing water into the staging area and making your tires even slicker.
Tire pressure
This will vary by the tire, so it’s abit of experimenting with this one. First off over inflate the front tires 8-12 psi. Over inflated = less contact patch = less rolling resistance.
Now to find the sweet spot with the rears. Have them inflated to their full pressure. Right off the bat you can probably drop them 5psi. Now go take two runs and then drop them 5 more psi. Rinse and repeat until you get really good 60ft times.
Gearing:
This is what should be another de facto upgrade. Everyone but our community does this off the bat. If you show me someone that says short gears are unusable with any decent amount of horsepower, ill show you someone that doesn’t know a properly set up suspension from their own *******. I have heard too many people say to stay away from the 4.3s because they are just spin fests. If someone tells you that, dont listen to any of their advice again; they just let you know they don't know ****.
The domestic 1/8 mile guys run gears in the 6.x range with more horsepower than anyone on this whole board makes. Yet they have no problem hooking. It’s called proper setup and good tires.
Here are our choices: 3.6, 3.9, 4.1, 4.3. If you want to go faster in the 1/4 mile, you need a higher number. If you have a 3.6 try going up to a 3.9, if that’s not enough try the 4.1, etc. etc.
The main point of concern is if you are a manual. You might have issues where you are redlining 200 ft out. Not enough time to shift, but coasting will just kill your times. In this situation you might want to step back a gear. OR get some taller side walled tires. A simple taller tire change can cure those shifting blues.
Going from 3.6 to 4.3 is a tremendous difference and your times will reflect it.
Weight:
Every 100 pounds lost = 0.1 faster in the quarter mile. That means you can potentially go much, much quicker by shedding some weight. It also explains why your car with the mad tight system with four 15 inch subwoofers is so slow. Take that **** out if you’re going to go to the track.
All weight loss is not good weight loss though. If you only remove weight from the rear of the car, you wont be able to hook. You do need weight over the tires to make them hook.
When removing weight, try to keep it even or take more weight off the front. Our cars are nose heavy anyways, so try and work up there. If you can move things to the back, do so; such as the battery.
Also remember that every 1 pound of rotational mass = 10 pounds of static mass. This is another reason why you shouldn’t try and drag with those heavy *** 17s of yours. Get you some nice light rims.
At the Track:
Keep your car off as long as you can while in the lanes. Heat soak is not your friend. Ever wonder why some people push their cars while in the staging lanes? Keeping them cool by keeping them off.
Pop your hood while in the staging lanes, let it get nice and cool in there. Just make sure your hood is nice and securely closed about 3 cars prior to running.
Those sneaky tricks
Bring a spray bottle of rubbing alcohol. While in the staging lanes spray down your intercooler, hard pipes, and intake manifold. It’s great for cooling things with a quickness.
Don’t want to spend the cash on a C02 or N02 intercooler sprayer? Just get the bottle then and some extra tubing. Make sure you hold the bottle upside down, point the tubing at your intercooler and spray away.
Stage shallow. Just barely get the all good lights to come on. That way you’ll be rolling before you break the track lights. You know, kinda cheating but not really? Haha.
Here’s another one from mike. Clean and wax your front bumper, hood, roof. Wind drag goes up cubed (or is it squared? I forget) after 60mph. I don’t know about you, but I go abit faster than 60mph in the quarter mile. Less drag = faster times.
Over all:
It should take very little work to get your car fast. It’s just a matter of doing it right. Get your suspension set up right, get some good tires, practice launching.
If you want more drag racing hints, visit some domestic board.
Concepts:
When you launch your car from a stop there are two main things going on. Transfer of weight from the front to the rear and then hooking. If you want a better launch, you need to optimize both of these.
Working the Clutch:
There simply is no excuse for the “bog” or “sit and spin” if you’ve driven your manual car for more than a month.
Every single day you can get tons of practice launching. Every single stop light, every single stop sign. I’m not telling you to stage like you’re at the track and try and burn rubber like a madman. I am telling you to figure out what your clutch setup likes. You can launch hard and still be perfectly legal on the street. You drive your car, so get to know how it drives.
Most of the time, launching at the track is just like regular driving. The speed that you release the clutch pedal during normal driving, is the same speed you release it while launching at the track. Thinking you have to rev and then just dump the clutch is why people sit and spin or bog. Bring your revs up high, and release the clutch the same speed as if you were easing away from a stop light. This works with most clutch setups. But like I said earlier, get to know how your car launches. You should know how to work your clutch for good launches before you ever goto the track.
Boost from the line:
Boosted Manual cars have a big disadvantage at the track. No boost from the line. This is easy to cure. It’s called a two-step, or rev limiter. You step on the gas and the two-step will artificially limit your revs at a lower level (you usually set this at your launch rpm. You should know your launch rpm because you have practiced and know what works). This loads the engine and you will get boost. Launch and shut off the two step. There you go, manual car with boost from the line. It can mean the difference between starting out with over a hundred or more horsepower from a turbo that’s actually spooled up.
If you are serious about dragging with a manual, you need to get a rev limiter/two step.
You can get it running with the MSD DIS-4PN 6215, Dis-4. It will also require 2 of the PN 8912 Adapters. Theres another one that works but I cant remeber it right now. I'll put the info in when I remeber it.
Here's what a 2step sounds/looks like if you have never heard/seen one. It basicly just sounds like hitting the rev limiter like normal. This is duane building boost at the line and whuppin a mk4. Funny Videos, Funny Pictures, Flash Games, Jokes
Power shifting
WARNING – This can **** up your tranny with a quickness. But if you just need that extra 0.1-0.3 you can do it.
Power shifting is when you keep your foot planted on the gas and barely, barely, barely, touch the clutch pedal just to release the clutch, then jam it into the next gear with your foot already off the clutch pedal. It is very fast and will keep your turbo spooled. But it’s rough as **** on the transmission.
I personally don’t recommend it because to me a grenaded tranny isn’t worth a time difference that could be attributed to standard deviation anyways.
Suspension set up:
Sway bar / End links:
I keep saying this but people aren’t listening. When at the track, disconnect the front sway bars. This goes back to the original concept that I talked about earlier. Transfer of weight to the rear of the vehicle. With the front sway bar disconnected it allows freer movement of the front suspension. Lets weight shift occur easier. Disconnecting the front sway bar is de facto standard in pretty much most auto enthusiast groups aside from the moron import crowd.
Don’t drive to the track with them disconnected though. That wont be fun. Also before you do this at the track, disconnect them once or twice and drive around your neighborhood to get a feel for what its like with them off. You don’t want to get squirrelly down the track your first time with them off. Know how it drives.
With adjustable end links it’s makes unattaching the front bar a breeze. Just disconnect the lower tie on the tie bar. It also allows you to adjust your rear sway bar to fine tune your launch. There are one or two places that sell them I think. Or you can just make your own. I made my own as seen below:
Camber:
If you dropped your car, you now more than likely have negative camber. When you launch an IRS car, the camber moves to the negative. If you are already there, launching just makes your tires have a small little contact patch. This is a big reason why you dropped folks launch so shitty. Yeah your JDM dorifto million degrees of negative camber crap looks cool (to you), but it sucks for launching. Dial in a degree or two of positive camber before you go to the track. When you launch you ideally want zero camber, a flat contact patch. So if you are just a degree or two positive before you launch, when it squats you zero out. Perfect.
Shocks/springs/coilovers
This is really something you just need to adjust and test for yourself. For some people hard front soft rear works better for them, for others vice versa. There are just too many different combos to tell you exactly what to do. I will tell you not to go full hard all around. It goes back to the original concept. You want weight to be able to shift to the back, then you want to hook.
Try starting out with the front abit harder than the rear. Then work from there. If you mess with the ride height, make sure you adjust the camber.
Rims and Tires:
Sorry, but those low profile 17s just aint gonna cut it.
The second part of the concept is hooking. Without decent tires, the best suspension in the world won’t mean crap. If you are serious about dragging, you need to go back to 15s. You just cant get good drag tires in 17+.
Spend the 300 bucks on some nice fat quality drag radials or slicks. Only run them at the track. If this means buying an extra set of rims, then so be it. Some 225 slicks will hook better than some 315 street tires. So just drop the coin.
Nice big sidewalls are what you want. This allows the tire to flex and hook. Check the drag racing section to see what kind of success people are having with certain brands and certain compounds. If in doubt, go stickier.
If you have to run on street tires, don’t do a burn out. Street tires don’t work like drag tires. Getting them hot makes them slick. Just a quick spin to get the dirt off is all you need. Also, DRIVE AROUND the burnout box. You’re not doing a burnout anyways. By driving through it you’re just sloshing water into the staging area and making your tires even slicker.
Tire pressure
This will vary by the tire, so it’s abit of experimenting with this one. First off over inflate the front tires 8-12 psi. Over inflated = less contact patch = less rolling resistance.
Now to find the sweet spot with the rears. Have them inflated to their full pressure. Right off the bat you can probably drop them 5psi. Now go take two runs and then drop them 5 more psi. Rinse and repeat until you get really good 60ft times.
Gearing:
This is what should be another de facto upgrade. Everyone but our community does this off the bat. If you show me someone that says short gears are unusable with any decent amount of horsepower, ill show you someone that doesn’t know a properly set up suspension from their own *******. I have heard too many people say to stay away from the 4.3s because they are just spin fests. If someone tells you that, dont listen to any of their advice again; they just let you know they don't know ****.
The domestic 1/8 mile guys run gears in the 6.x range with more horsepower than anyone on this whole board makes. Yet they have no problem hooking. It’s called proper setup and good tires.
Here are our choices: 3.6, 3.9, 4.1, 4.3. If you want to go faster in the 1/4 mile, you need a higher number. If you have a 3.6 try going up to a 3.9, if that’s not enough try the 4.1, etc. etc.
The main point of concern is if you are a manual. You might have issues where you are redlining 200 ft out. Not enough time to shift, but coasting will just kill your times. In this situation you might want to step back a gear. OR get some taller side walled tires. A simple taller tire change can cure those shifting blues.
Going from 3.6 to 4.3 is a tremendous difference and your times will reflect it.
Weight:
Every 100 pounds lost = 0.1 faster in the quarter mile. That means you can potentially go much, much quicker by shedding some weight. It also explains why your car with the mad tight system with four 15 inch subwoofers is so slow. Take that **** out if you’re going to go to the track.
All weight loss is not good weight loss though. If you only remove weight from the rear of the car, you wont be able to hook. You do need weight over the tires to make them hook.
When removing weight, try to keep it even or take more weight off the front. Our cars are nose heavy anyways, so try and work up there. If you can move things to the back, do so; such as the battery.
Also remember that every 1 pound of rotational mass = 10 pounds of static mass. This is another reason why you shouldn’t try and drag with those heavy *** 17s of yours. Get you some nice light rims.
At the Track:
Keep your car off as long as you can while in the lanes. Heat soak is not your friend. Ever wonder why some people push their cars while in the staging lanes? Keeping them cool by keeping them off.
Pop your hood while in the staging lanes, let it get nice and cool in there. Just make sure your hood is nice and securely closed about 3 cars prior to running.
Those sneaky tricks
Bring a spray bottle of rubbing alcohol. While in the staging lanes spray down your intercooler, hard pipes, and intake manifold. It’s great for cooling things with a quickness.
Don’t want to spend the cash on a C02 or N02 intercooler sprayer? Just get the bottle then and some extra tubing. Make sure you hold the bottle upside down, point the tubing at your intercooler and spray away.
Stage shallow. Just barely get the all good lights to come on. That way you’ll be rolling before you break the track lights. You know, kinda cheating but not really? Haha.
Here’s another one from mike. Clean and wax your front bumper, hood, roof. Wind drag goes up cubed (or is it squared? I forget) after 60mph. I don’t know about you, but I go abit faster than 60mph in the quarter mile. Less drag = faster times.
Over all:
It should take very little work to get your car fast. It’s just a matter of doing it right. Get your suspension set up right, get some good tires, practice launching.
If you want more drag racing hints, visit some domestic board.
Reply
1
1
12-26-2011, 05:25 PM
#46
I like how OP talks a big talk right now with zero time slips in a miata thus far.
Classic "I'm such a badass I'm going to re-definte your guys' standards for power" noob behavior.
Here's some advice: go run 12's at 200 and report back.
I'm not saying you can't, and all the power to ya if you will, just don't say you will til you have. If that makes sense.
Our cars don't have the traction off the line like mustangs and camaros, and don't have the power up top like boosted hondas, they are fun as hell but are not straight line dominators like some others. It takes effort to make them run the quarter real fast.
Classic "I'm such a badass I'm going to re-definte your guys' standards for power" noob behavior.
Here's some advice: go run 12's at 200 and report back.
I'm not saying you can't, and all the power to ya if you will, just don't say you will til you have. If that makes sense.
Our cars don't have the traction off the line like mustangs and camaros, and don't have the power up top like boosted hondas, they are fun as hell but are not straight line dominators like some others. It takes effort to make them run the quarter real fast.
I'm sorry if you feel I'm trying to "re-definte" whatever that means.
Just to end it off, my first 2 cars were Camaro's and my drag car was a D16 Honda with lowered compression and forged internals. I have a lot of time behind the wheel and the car weighs the same. The point of the question was to find out how the car will hook up. I ran 13.3 on garbage street tires with seiously bad 60's and bad traction. I'm sorry that I assumed a 200WHP miata would run a little better with a good setup of tires. I love all cars and have owned many of them. The whole point of asking the question was to find out how the car would hook up but I appreciate you getting greasy with me.
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0
12-26-2011, 05:31 PM
#47
Thanks for the serious troll but there is really no need. I'm not being hostile with you and numbers can tell you a lot when it comes to drag racing. I have owned my 1.8 swapped miata for about 8 months and haven't seen the point of taking a stock miata to the track. Thanks for being an absolute dick to me for asking a question.....much appreciated. I am a noob to Miata's but not to cars and drag racing.
I'm sorry if you feel I'm trying to "re-definte" whatever that means.
Just to end it off, my first 2 cars were Camaro's and my drag car was a D16 Honda with lowered compression and forged internals. I have a lot of time behind the wheel and the car weighs the same. The point of the question was to find out how the car will hook up. I ran 13.3 on garbage street tires with seiously bad 60's and bad traction. I'm sorry that I assumed a 200WHP miata would run a little better with a good setup of tires. I love all cars and have owned many of them. The whole point of asking the question was to find out how the car would hook up but I appreciate you getting greasy with me.
I'm sorry if you feel I'm trying to "re-definte" whatever that means.
Just to end it off, my first 2 cars were Camaro's and my drag car was a D16 Honda with lowered compression and forged internals. I have a lot of time behind the wheel and the car weighs the same. The point of the question was to find out how the car will hook up. I ran 13.3 on garbage street tires with seiously bad 60's and bad traction. I'm sorry that I assumed a 200WHP miata would run a little better with a good setup of tires. I love all cars and have owned many of them. The whole point of asking the question was to find out how the car would hook up but I appreciate you getting greasy with me.
you're welcome sweetheartif you think that was a troll post or that I'm being too harsh with you then you got a whole lot of surprises coming on this site
"drag car" running 13.3......sounds serious you should compete in the NHRA
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12-26-2011, 05:52 PM
#49
Raw numbers can tell you the potential and that's about it.
It's always good to know where you are starting, even if you think that a stock Miata is slow so it's pointless. Many would also say a 11, 12 or 13 second car is slow so it's equally pointless.
Should we be impressed?
Sounds like you have zero time behind the wheel drag racing a Miata. The weight of a car is just one piece of the puzzle.
We have no idea because we don't know if you are a good driver and how well you can setup your car.
So, you're trying to tell us that you don't know how to setup a car or drive.
It has the possibility to run better if properly setup, but most don't know how to or lack the ability to drive the car to its full potential when it's setup properly. Only on the internet is everyone a great driver with a perfectly setup car.
Post of some pics of you loving cars and getting greasy with 18psi.
Sounds like you have zero time behind the wheel drag racing a Miata. The weight of a car is just one piece of the puzzle.
We have no idea because we don't know if you are a good driver and how well you can setup your car.
Post of some pics of you loving cars and getting greasy with 18psi.
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12-26-2011, 10:28 PM
#58
Slowest Progress Ever
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Lars...I was waiting this whole thread for you to post that exact video...I can still see you at the mt. Airy dyno day saying, "I don't live my life a 1/4 mile at a time".
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12-27-2011, 08:58 PM
#60
Hell, there are still people who think a turbo miata "ruins the engineering dynamics of Mazda's excellent work" and will never go above having a JRSC w/ POWAH-cards However, it really doesn't matter what you want to do with your car as long as you can show you're taking it seriously and do work. Otherwise it's going to be the flame game
I myself love drag racing and big power highway cars. I'll never stop either. My turbos get bigger every 6 months and I just bought a Holset to replace the 2871 that I just bought a month ago
Last edited by viperormiata; 12-27-2011 at 09:09 PM.
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