I now need some serious help from the turbo masters
 

OK
So I have:
1.8l
99 head
stock cams
volvo valve springs. Good to 8K rpm
9:1 CR
JE pistons +1mm
Eagle rods
Lightened crank (-7lbs)
all ARP hardware
+1 mm valves both sides
mild blending of the bowls. removed any boogers and cast marks
Paul style intake manifold modification
BEGI Series 5
Externally gated 38mm Tial WG
3" custom downpipe
Electromotive TechIIIr
880 injectors
110 oct VP fuel

I may have forgotten some stuff..

Anyway, you all know what sport i participate in. Some may dislike it, but you should still be able to help me.

I need a turbo. T3 footprint.

I want it full spooled by 3500rpm. hopefully before. I need good response. Not peak power.
I need 260 wheel ftlbs. Whatever WHP that come with that. 270ftlbs will be my max and i dont really need over 300rwhp.
The turbo can be maxed at 300-330hp. I really just need that quick spool and good solid midrange for days.

pauls dyno looks just about perfect for me. I can get up to 22psi and not worry about the engine at all.

i was thinking the 2560r would be perfect, but I have a T3 footprint. So I then looked into Turbonetics T3 Super 60 with the stage 1 turbine and .48 hotside housing.

Please let me know your thoughts. I hope that all made sense. if not please ask questions. I am on and off throttle and obviously in and out of boost all over the place. Its like a tight rally course for throttle modulation.

thanks everyone
-Jeff

Jeff, I think a .48exh/.60comp Merkur/SVO t3 turbo will get you those numbers nicely on the cheap.

Thanks. I aklso thought that turbo would be a decent choice. I was then also considering the model with a bit bigger compressor wheel. The Super 60 style.

No one else has any input???

I get to full boost 14 PSI @ about 3800 RPM on a .60 AR T-3/4, but im on a totally stock 97 motor. Not sure if what it will change on a built motor. But if your racing on a track you should be above 4K RPM all the time right? So it would be at max boost and TQ. all the time. even with a super 60 sized comp.

Occasionally you can find them already upgraded on ebay slightly used for a decent price. Your input may be a bit limited on here as not many are familiar with t3's. I will be heading to the tear a part today or tomorrow and will see if there are any with .60 compressors, but they are not very common.

The word he's trying to avoid is drifting. You want the torque band as wide as possible so you can avoid downshifting mid-drift if it's a really long decreasing radius corner and you fall below 4000.

I'd definately go with the .48 hotside and either a ported or external wastegate.

If I were a closet homosexual scat queen power-bottom handballer(drifter) I'd change quite a few things. I'd run a gt2560 (or equivalent), 8.6:1 compression ratio for starters because I'm making 252wtq (275wtq on a dynojet) at 4000rpm with my ".86 tater." A tubular manifold would drop spool-age down to where you want it. Leave the crank alone, run pump gas, and don't jack with the head too much.

If mid-range is what you want, then you want my spark table. I'm no engineer, but no one is running a spark table like mine, nor are they making torque like my motor. Low comp is the shit. I think my motor with a different hot-side would be perfect for what you're doing.

I've been reading a lot on what the hot-side does to spool and I've left with more questions than answers. A smaller turbine housing doesn't always mean faster spool, and a more aggressive turbine wheel the same. You might have success with a smaller housing and the same wheel as me...that's a question for the engineers here.

"If"?

:giggle:

:makeout:



:miatarainbow:

Yeah I d r i f t

Right now I just spool up way to late. I am making 283 hp and 256 TQ on a Mustang Dyno

Thanks for the input guys. I appreciate it. i also think a GT 2560r is the ticket. I just need a t3 that is equivalent to it.

Update
 

After speaking with Turbonetics and running this by their engineers they decided their T3 super 60 with a stage three turbine wheel and a .48 Turbine housing.
I installed this and running 17psi instead of almost 18, I had 299 rwhp and 270 ftlbs.

great numbers. The problem is that the dyno plot is identical to the last one. They both suck.

So now, the tuner,and my machinist think that the cams are off because my head has been decked several times. They felt if I buy adjustable cam gears we can put the cams where they need to be and reach this peak boost level way before it is now..

Anyone have some input??

I see you have a 3" dp. Is the rest of the exhaust 3" too? If not; maybe that would help your spool.

BTW, I had the T3 super 60 myself and sold it for the same reasons you mention.

I'm running a T3/T4 chinacharger from ebay and ever since I built my engine I'm seeing full boost at 3,600 rpm.

What A/R is your turbine housing?

The super 60 is alot smaller than what I took off. Thats why we are all confused. So i think the cames are coming on at the wrong tine.

My exhaust is 3" all the way out, no muffler.

I had a t3/t4 china guy too. i was seeing 18.5psi at about 4500.

i really think my cams are off. This engine is built and has higher compression than before. along with the 3" down pipe.

if you want paul's, then the super 60 is perfect.

it's technically a 2860 with journal bearings. you can get them built with BBs but they are expensive.

you'll be limited to pauls output too, dont expect much more than 300-320rwhp

I've made fairly descent numbers with it on my stock 1.6L



whoops i just read your old post...you made the mistake of going with a stage III turbine, you need a stage I. and with a .48 A/R housing...im sure they gave you a .63.


what exhaust manifold?


Here's Markp's old Mustang dyno with a T3 Super 60 on his 1.8L:

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...0009_large.jpg

.50

Thanks Brain.

I do have the stage 3 wheel, but it is the .48 housing.
Oh, BEGI cast manifold, 3" DP and 3" all the way out
I also got the BB model. I need my car as competetive as possible this year. I was given my D1 invite. I am not going, but it made me realize i need to step my shit up.

SO is there no chance of this turbo being fully boosted by 3500 at 17psi+ ??

If not, I need to have them put a stage 1 wheel on there. I am fine with my power levels.270ftlbs and 299rwhp on a mustang is perfect for me and thats only 17 psi. SO I can go up in boost if need be for the tage 1 wheel..

My T3 60 trim fits your want list perfectly. Plus its cheap as hell in rebuilt form from Gpopshop.
I have the .48 turbine housing, I have peak boost by like 3100 (14psi) and thats with the BEGI cast S5 manifold, EBC, 3" downpipe and poor timing tuning.

^^^^^
What turbine wheel do you have ????

You should have been there and FD long ago.

Ha ha thanks man. I appreciate that..

I heare that alot, BUT then they say "not with the Miata" LOL!!!

So my dumb ass goal is to do it in the miata..

Braineack:
How about a stage 3 wheel and a .36 AR??

could be interesting....the idea of a stage III is for flow, so it's already going to spool slower but make more power. coupled with that small of an A/R, who knows.

Fuck it, I may have to try it if the adjustable cams gears dont put the power band where I need it...

I am glad I can do something interesting for you ;)

OK folks

So as stated above my spool was shit.
I am now spooling just as late and making 280whp and 273ftlbs on a mustang at 15psi.

Dont get me wrong, the thing is bad ass, just not when I need it to be.

Anyway, I just found out today that my turbo will be getting a new stage 1 turbine wheel with a .48AR housing. Gspec and Turbonetics came together and agreed to fix it for me. Thanks greg at Gspec :)

So I wanted some input from you folks..

I still def want the same numbers, they are great, and I do believe the smaller wheel is going to make them happen alot quicker. Hopefully 1200rpm quicker.

I just wanted to know if you think I will have to jack up my boost a shit ton to get the same numbers with the smaller turbine wheel...

Thanks everyone. I hope to put up a solid dyno here for you folks soon so I can be added to the spool info ect..

I ran that exact same turbo with a 15* turbine clip on an 8v VW for a while and with that shit-box head it was making 12psi at 3500rpm with 2" exhaust, lol.

Your initial instinct in post #1 was correct. The T3S60 was exactly the turbo you should have gotten from step one. It would have gotten you exactly what you wanted. Don't listen to Hustler, it took him 4 years and everyone elses opinions, the same people that recommended you the T3S60, to finally put his setup together.

TURNS, dude, it would be awesome if you would post your dyno plots as you've changed setups along the way... it would benefit the forum a lot, and long after you may be gone.

Confirm you are currently running adjustable cam-gears? Which ones did you get, what are the settings, and can we see the before/after dyno plots?

No problem. I can do that. i just have to get all of the plots together.
i will get it all together amd make a post with all the info i can give you guys.

Right now i just have scans of the plots and they may look really shitty here. I will try and get the files so I can post them here clearly.

So the t3s60 with the stage 1 turbine wheel and a.48 A/R BB turbo will have me at the smae power #s, just a shit ton earlier???
If so, tis car will be more of an animal..

Thanks everyone..

Just look at scott's plots man. It comes on like a freight train and stays. And he is only running like 12-13psi. On your built motor you can max it out. I think it can run something like 22psi maybe more before being inefficient. Should get you your target easily.

Really guy?? That wont happen :)

With a good match you dont need it..

Yeah man. I def thought stage 1 was the way to go..

Thats probably why they are actually going to fix it..

I am excited to see the change..

Sorry if this was mentioned, but ATP sells a T3 turbine housing for the 2560r. Need to use a EWG but you already have that.

------

This. It was my first thought, as well.

T31 Turbine Housing for GT25R/GT28R: atpturbo.com

They also list an internally gated T3 inlet/ Ford outlet housing here, but I didn't see it on the site. I'm sure they would sell you one if you called.

Garrett GT2871R turbo with GT28R style Compressor Housing NO ACTUATOR: atpturbo.com

sounds like a good idea to me.

Boundary Engineering check out this page for various plots with only changing the intake cam gear on a turbocharged miata. It really modulates power.

So when did you start offering VVT cam gears? Using a dyno plot from someone not even using your product is a bit misleading don't you think?

Yeah- I don't think Travis thought that one out before posting it. If he made a cam gear that could dynamically change, we'd all have one. ;)

Well Matt made these plots using fixed timing just like a cam gear would. He posted the plot degrees somewhere for each run. He can do angle changes a little quicker then we can because he just has to type a number in, but as far as power changes a cam gear is a cam gear is a variable cam gear fixed guys. :giggle:

I was glad Matt let me use the dyno plot. Many thanks!

The dyno plots show the cam gear in three different positions. It doesn't move during the dyno run.

Now if he had shown those and said "have the best of all three at the same time!" it would definitely be misleading.

now if he had the exhaust cam gears in carbon fiber, I could put one on and satisfy the "not even using your product" requirement.

Ahhhh- ok. Didn't realize cam timing was fixed.

That makes sense using it at a fixed position to show the differences. I was thinking that it's always used as a variable system. Time to play with this on my own car....an email is coming at you shortly y8s.

Thanks for all the info folks.

I will update this bad boy as soon as I have more info..

OK people
I got my turbo from turbonetics.
Super 60 stage 1 exhaust wheel with a .48 housing.

I will hit the Dyno next week.

I will also get whatever info I can from them from my past dyno runs with boost and all that jazz

I will have the dyno plot tomorrow.
At 20psi, word is, I am in the 300's for whp and ftlbs. Thats on a Mustang Dyno.
Tomorrow I will have the plot to scan so we can see how it spools up..

Mustang? That's like 360+ rwhp on a dynojet... at least compared to the mustang/dynojet I was on. ;)

Stage 1 vs the stage 3 dyno plot
 

The plot is not spooled/boosted as soon as i wanted it to be. i think with the increase head flow and the Intake mod, it slowed that down a bit.

Regardless, I think these numbers are pretty bad ass.

please let me know your thoughts..

20lbs of boost.

The skinny line is the boost, with the stage 1 turbine .48 it had 313 tq and 310 rwhp.

FEAR THE SUPER 60, Bitch!!! :p

Mark

You're still alive?

ON TOPIC:

What LB spring are you runing on the Tial? Do you have EBC? Tial recommends never running more than 2x the LBs boost as the spring you have in the EWG. Ideally you run the spring that is just under what you plan to run. Coupled with the EBC and you will not leak boost from the manifold pressure. With those combos you should be able to hit max boost around 3400-3500rpm at the latest. My best educated/experienced guess is that manifold pressure is opening you wg early and leaking gases.

My 1.6 with 13lb spring, running no ebc or mbc, hits max at 3500rpm currently. Same turbo.

I thought about that. I have a 14lb spring in the tial wg right now.

My EBC died on dyno and I now have a MBC in its place. It was turned up to 20psi while tuning it.

I believe that the mod I made to the intake manifold is what has caused this.

The HP carries well. I believe the intake mod heped that, but hurt my spool..

I will see how this feels on the track sunday. If it sucks, I will throw on a stock IM and see what happens with the spool. I know it may make the HP dip off, but if I am feathering and clutch kicking all the time, I will take the small loss in power..

Thanks for looking everyone.
Mark P is alive!!!!

I am alive, I no longer own a Miata, so I don't cruise the Miata boards anymore. I've been working my ass off in this Ph.D. program that I am in, so I don't get much time to surf the net at all.

I recently did pick up a new ride, picture below.

https://www.miataturbo.net/gallery/files/9/6/4/mini.jpg

I thought you were the owner of the thread, kind of come out of the blue with such post.

Enjoy the overly priced mini.

you do realize this thread has been dead for months now right?

and the post was not out of the blue either. But, psiturbo, yours was. :facepalm:

It got replaced.... LOL
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2f949c9a54.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4fc1217291.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...1b3cbcbe07.jpg

Acceptable decade old thread bump!