I'm making a BPT miata
 

Bullshit to "everyone has done it search around" I've been looking my ass off and found fuck all other than bits and pieces of "its possible" so I'm doing it.

Not only am I doing it but I'm doing it in one or two days and racing next Saturday.


So far I've found that I have most of everything that's established as needing to be changed over, namely; oil pan, standalone ecu,mani's, flywheel and clutch, tranny, and the engine has a cas already so no need for me to swap mine in so bonus there.

I'm really hoping the the connectors for the electronics are the same but if not I get to freshin up my soilder skills.

So who thinks this is a great idea lol. Reason is I fucked my engine and can't find a cheap/close bp to swap, this one is only 500km away, ya that's close for miata parts.

I'm picking the engine up tom so I'll have pics up this weekend of the swap and the details that way in the future someone can see wtf needs to be changed as the info doesn't seem to be out there in great detail.

Oh ya this is that built 1.92 bpt that's been forsale forever in the classifieds. I think it will be fast if I can make mspnp work with it...Or use the standalone it comes with..

So, you're using the BPT from the 323 GTX? If so, that's pretty cool. Most would say unnecessary but if you need to replace the engine, why not eh?

Good luck!

I'm really not sure why and I could be totally wrong, but for some reason I want to say that Marc from M-tuned said he's put the BPT motor fromt he GTX in a Miata before, might want to get in touch with him for tips.

Nice thing is you can sell the parts you can't use (intake + exhaust manifolds, oil pan, turbo, oil feed line) to the Protege / Escort guys and make some money back.

Electrical connections should be the same, physically there's not a whole lot different, though how much depends on what "built" means.

Word Koto, thanks for the reminder kplafin I will get ahold of him if I run into any hang-ups.

Matt, ya the standalone and turbo and manis will be sold off for sure (along with my 99 head and custom 94 int mani made to fit the head) so I can recoup some costs hopefully. And most of what I've read suggests the connectors are the same, should help with the lack of time I have to do it.

I honestly can't think of any connections that would be different, if I get a chance tomorrow I'll take a look and compare my Miata to my GTR and GT/X hybrid motors to double-check.

What head are you planning on using? The BP26 head, or one from a Miata?

FYI, that 99 head will flow better than the BPT, IIRC.

hmmm

I'd hope so the BPT heads have restrictions on the intake ports, the NA protege heads flow better. Apparently the restricted intake ports increased torque at lower RPMs.

The only other downside I see is the lower CR of the BPT vs. an NA BP->NVM, I see it has been built

Those intake restrictors aren't as bad as you'd think, but either way, these heads just don't flow very well.

I've heard conflicting testimony, but you have a GTR so who am I to say. ;)

Well the head is fully built and flowed (increase of 20percent, which is enough to put it on par with the 99 I assume) so I imagine those intake bumps are long gone lol. Although my 99 head is semi-built (oem parts but worked over pretty throughly) and the int mani is a 94 modified to fit with lot of porting and extrude honing so either one will work fine I'd say.

Or if I can swap over head parts and cams I can slap on the 99 head and sell the gtx one. Not sure if valves ect as interchangeable there though.

Thanks Matt that would be cool if you could re-assure me that the wiring will be pnp bacially.

The cr is 8:1 which is low for a time attack car, but I'm never out of boost or below 4k so it shouldn't matter.

you won't be able to use the stock GTX manifold... not unless you want to severely modify your sheet metal and/or subframe.

I was thinking the same thing....if you put the motor in there with the GTX manifold on the throttle body will be right at the firewall won't it?

^^Where does it say I'm going to use the gtx mani's???

MIATA MANIFOLDS on the gtx head yo.

Plus my turbo manifold/turbo is way more baller than the oem gtx shit;)

The intake restictor argument is about as conclusive as the exhintake argument.

What you believe depends whose side you're on.

Use one head or the other. If you use the GTX head, you'll either have to plug the stock t-stat opening and remove the coolant plug (I'm sure you know this, but just in case :p) or run a coolant reroute. You *could* swap over head parts, but it's a lot of effort for not much gain, if any. The BP26 head uses HLAs still, which means you'd have to swap the cams, lifters, shims, and all that nonsense over from your 99 head. Not worth it, IMO. Valves should be interchangeable; the only head that I can think of at the moment that has different valves is the BPD variant of the BP26 head, which had sodium-filled exhaust valves. I know that between the BP05/BPZE/BP26 and BPD, the valves are all the same size. Since your BP26 head is built, it may have oversize valves.

Right now it's raining pretty hard, so let me see what I can come up with for being different as far as electrical plugs from memory... TPS/MAF are different, but you're using Miata parts. The BPT has an oil pressure switch, not sender, so just use a Miata sending unit. It should have a knock sensor, if you don't have a knock control box you can get one from a 626/MX6/Probe GT with the F2T. I really can't think of any other connectors that are physically different, so I'll have to wait until the weather clears to look. I know that the coolant temp switch that bolts into the T-stat housing on the BPT can change based on the year (I've had at least two different ones now).

Yeah, the exhintake debate never gets old.

so what you are saying is that you are putting a miata motor in a miata... I don't see why that justifies a whole new thread. besides the manifolds that motor is identical. The only exceptions are the dip stick location (in the pump instead of the pan) and the casting on the rear of the head not having provisions for the coil packs.

Seriously... wtf dude.

So, will the motor run on a megasquirt for a miata?

Or will it need alot of custom work in order for it to function correctly?

If the latter, than sounds like a waste of time.

Stock for stock, there's quite a bit more than that for differences between the two motors...

Fireindc: No reason it shouldn't, with conversion to Miata use.

Picked up the engine at 1am time for the 4hr drive home!

Pics tommorrow

Good luck man! Call me if you need anything or left something behind that you need.

wow i'm quite excited to see how this will go

Sabretooth (i think it's his login name here) has done this here in Oz.
The Miata water pump has a threaded hole for the alternator to mount to vs the BPT not having one (or is it the other way around?) if you use your sump all should be fine, but you will need to use your oil pump too.
Pics at: http://mx-5.sabretooth.id.au/enginerebuild/ His site went down and I am unsure if he rebuilt the HTML (it's just pics)...

is it tomm yet?

Tomorrow is not scheduled to arrive for 3-5 business days.

You've got it right- there's a boss on the water pump for the bracket that the alternator adjusts with on the Miata. On the BPT (and all other FWD BPs), the alternator bracket bolts to the bracket for the passenger side motor mount.

Well things went pretty well yesterday but we ran into one good snag...

Motherfucker has an 01 msbp on and we tried to "copy" what psituning did to make the gtx pan fit, notch and form out the pan.

Then I thought heat, bad idea lol. While it looks entirely possible to just grind out a 94-97 pan to fit the msbp it looked like they ground the edge down to a 45 and pounded it out some how.

So I'm looking for an oil pan today either kind will work.

Another note, the turbo on this engine was smaller than the 48/48 t25 I had on the miata before the gt2871 and - have no idea how it worked at all lol. A two dollar coin would plug the inlet on the comp housing lol.

Also need some new injector o-rings as the 550's were cracked in two and the one's from my 370's don't fit.

The head and intake on the gtx motor were heavily ported, yet look really well done.

So I promised pictures and you guys think I'm gonna flake out right, lol well we set the camera on time lapse and took about 1200pics that we'll turn into a slide show when alls said and done so you will have to wait a few 'business days' for those.

How is the GTX intake manifold going to work for you?
I've done that swap and the EGT many times, let me know if you have any questions.

EDIT: Email me if you have questions :) I'm not in the shop this week.

Interesting that they'd do all that work and leave the tiny little VJ20 on there.

the BP-T has much stronger rods and has lower compression to begin with, better for more boost.

The BPT and BP05/BPZE have the same rods.

is he putting in the gtx bpt? or gtr bpt?

still compression ration is lower

GTX. GTR is typically referred to as BPD.

With the stock pistons, the compression is almost irrelevant if tuned right (8.2:1 vs 8.8:1 or even 9:1). Typically the motor failure comes down to user error, from what I have seen.

So I fiddled with the pan and made it clear the mbsp, but will have to weld(jb stylez) the fracture I made in it yesterday.

Hope to have the motor in the car tom and maybe start it.

I have gm coils and the wiring is yellow (power) orange and white, how do I find out which one is which with the other two? Also need to know what the color of the wires on the chasis harness as the plug was pulled off and not sure which way it goes on lol.

Upon removal of the clutch I had to say I was surprised how much the disc had worn since the installed this spring. I guarentee it won't last all of next year, not sure if that's normal wear for a 6puck sprung clutch being raced and abused.

Marc btw I'm not using the gtx int or exh manis, I'll b using my miata ones.

I really want to use the miata alternator as its quite new and I'm thinking I should just swap the pulley on the alt to the gtx V-style...Rather than changing the crank pulley ect.

I also have to look into reconfiguring my mspnp to run with no vaf and variable tps from the gtx throttle body.


Dean

I don't believe you can swap the alternator pulley. I used to swap the crank and waterpump when flip, flopping between alternators.

Maybe this will help you - some pictures of BPT swap in my friend's 91 miata:

http://images34.fotosik.pl/103/f1ae0d37473a52d3m.jpg

http://images34.fotosik.pl/103/d5d70ad8f57e256am.jpg

http://images34.fotosik.pl/103/f1ae0d37473a52d3m.jpg

http://images26.fotosik.pl/168/a694595de68470f5m.jpg

http://images31.fotosik.pl/162/75a86ccb81f8695cm.jpg

http://images27.fotosik.pl/167/26fdca5fef5177f8m.jpg

http://images28.fotosik.pl/168/83a673269e11e49em.jpg

http://images33.fotosik.pl/233/aab45a7aba12293am.jpg

http://images25.fotosik.pl/202/9313ddf8932b78dcm.jpg

http://images32.fotosik.pl/232/1c6608ccfd5ba6d8m.jpg

http://images32.fotosik.pl/232/b42061de2e74983fm.jpg

http://images31.fotosik.pl/233/52786bfcd3af86cam.jpg

http://images25.fotosik.pl/202/2b3baf80c4cfed0em.jpg

It runs ;)

ugg... distributor :(

Well the motor is in the car and everything expect the rad is hooked up. The water lines are going to be nasty looking as I'm running a hotside coolant re-route..Coils and aftermarket/custom CAS clears the firewall(barely). Motor will sit till friday to allow the jb weld on the oil pan to harden (and b/c I'm leaving town) and to make sure nothing is leaking, finished last night at 1am and didn't go over much.

I also found a brutual crack in my turbo manifold..Crack is right through the outlet flange and through the weld...Not to happy about that, luckily the neighbour where I'm doing the swap had some stainless rods and patched it up good enough for now.

I'll start a new thread with pics and results sometime in the next week and let everyone know how she runs.

Sub'n

Well tried to fire her up last night but the fuel pump didnt want to turn on?

Mspnp says the pump is on but I didn't hear shit, no fuel in the lines either, then I get an injector blowing out...

Needless to say I'm not racing today lol, really curious what would cause the fuel pump to not come on though. Doesn't prime when the key is in the on possition or when cranking.

It was late last night so I'll check into it today and hopefully get it running.

Hmm good luck, keep us updated.

She runs. Primed fuel pump, replaced an o-ring on an injector and swapped out the fancy aftermarket cas and coil packs for oem miata equipment. Fired right up. Rear oil pan seal was crappy and she started leaking oil pretty bad so I shut her down and pulled the tranny and flywheel today. Sealed it back up and will re-install the tranny tommorrow.

This engine is loud as hell. The exhaust mainly (as in it sounds like a fucking mustang :S lol) but the the top-end sounds like the hla's are dirty, although I didnt run it too long so maybe shes just alittle out of shape having not been run in so long.

Regardless so far so good, I really underestimated the cooling lines and where they have to be run, it looks like shit honestly, but I'll get some SS hardlines made up this winter to clean up the bay alittle.

Can't wait to put the boost to her and see how long my tranny lasts lol.

Any updates? Hows does she run now?

Im very interested in the starter mounting, if you happen to have snapped any shots of the bracket that holds the starter onto the block that would be awesome.

Starter mounts the same as it does on the miata(using the miata trans remember)

As for updates, well I drove it 30km home and found I really need a restrictor in the feed line to the turbo. Also when I was pulling the old motor out I found my manifold had a bad crack through the outlet flange so it needs replacing.

So its parked for the winter, I need some bigger injectors(750's) and a new fuel pump(still on the oem 1.6 lol) and I'll be making my rail a dual feed set-up.

Little update:

So my rush install job last fall was stupid so I decided to pull the motor this spring and fix everything that was sub par.

I also was thinking, since finding the mbsp and I was curious, what else was done to this engine that I didn't know about??

Well this was http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...6/DSC00376.jpg

And that makes me very happy lol (see: shim-under-buckets).

Attachment 206851
So Now the engine is out of the car and I managed to give the bay a respray and started cleaning up the turbo lines ect as the GTX motor has slightly different coolant routing (obviously)

So heres a couple shots from the other day, note that I have the lines routed differently now and the timing belt is done (tricky to do by yourself the first time by hand)

Attachment 206852

Attachment 206853

Attachment 206854

Attachment 206855

Attachment 206856

Attachment 206857

The intake manifold is one I bought with a 99 head from FM, its ported out pretty good and the "paint" is a heat dispersion coating (didn't come off in the ultra-sonic bath).

Anyways, I'll get more pics/vids when it gets up and running again (this month)


-Dean

I am following your updates ,
Is it possible to use the GTR ecu?
And how do you know the gtx from the GTR
Good luck with your poject.

I doubt the GTR ecu would plug into the miata harness, and I'm using a MSPNP anyway as this is a fully built motor and the stock ecu probably wouldn't like the things I'm doing so I would not even bother trying to use a stock ecu.

The GTR motor is different and has a lot of things that identify it vs the GTX motor, just wikipedia it and you'll see for yourself.

Thanks, motor has been running strong for awhile now.


-Dean

vids or pics? I used to wanna do this

Dude I don't see how you northern people do it, I could NOT work on my car when it's that cold outside, guess you got more balls than me haha.

I have more balls than Hustler yo. lol

I've done diff/clutch/motor swaps solo in -20C weather. No one has bench pressed there tranny or diff laying outside in the snow as much as I have the last 5 years (or worked in the winter outside on their car period lol)

As for the other guy;

I actually don't have any pics of the motor in the car (after looking around, I'll take some tomorrow) but really its just a bp motor, ya its got a different head and valve cover and stupid fwd motor mount still, other than that its just a miata motor. (mine just happens to be build is all)

Don't bother doing this swap unless you get the motor for free.

-Dean

Reasons why would u do not recomend doing this swap .
I was thinking this block is made for boost low compression stronger rods ....

The oem miata bp is just as strong in my opinion, you need to swap the dizzy for a CAS and coilpacks, you need a coolant reroute, you have to use miata intake and exhaust manifolds. So really after its all said and done you have a lower compression motor with a shitty head(oh ya the stock heads SUCK, they need alot of porting to be just as good as a bp05).

Like I said, if the motor was built and you got a screaming deal (my case) and you already had all the extra pieces from another 1.8 (mine was blown up) it makes sense.

If this is your situation just save the money and buy new pistons and rods for you miatas current motor.


-Dean

yep only the GTR is worth looking at...

The compression is lower than a 94-97.(9.0 is as low as you want to go on a stock engine (bpt is nothing else than a 8.6 compression miata engine. That is too low...for good power off a stock engine...)
These 94-97 blocks are the one you want... (94-95 have oil port on exhaust side)

The GTR has special pistons and rods... The rods are bigger than the 1.6 gtr (the one with bigger rods than the miata)
left to right:
GTR, GTX & B6T Rods
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5...dbptb6tfd1.jpg
The pistons off the gtr has special oil ports on the inside(cooling???)
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/4...rpiston1pz.jpg
Only 8.2:1 cr...(but ready for high boost!!)

I have a set at home..
The crank and head are not more interesting than the miata.. Even ported it will be as good or worse than the 99-00...

Still they are nice high hp motors but worth the trouble??
In my opinion, NOT.

if I recall correctly, the BP-Z3 and BP-4W motors also have those trick oil squirters under the pistons. In fact, I think even the BP-ZE in the 94-97 miatas also has the oil squirters...

I could be wrong, however.