Lacking power
 

I just got my car running again after going through a LONG process. the car is lacking power. i can hear the turbo spooling, but there is no power or go happening. i dont have a BOV in yet or an intercooler, im running a 1.75" pipe from the turbo and TB. i know that there is a vacume line coming off the TB and one off the intake mani that i have inproperly routed between the MAF and turbo. the line off the mani goes to the BOV (i think), the other i have no idea about. i figure getting the BOV in and rerouting the mani line will help some but even given all this it still feels like the car should have more go. any ideas?

small aside, can i damage the turbo (running roughly 6-7psi) by not having a BOV?

What's your boost gauge say? (Do not reply with "i dont have a boost gauge". If you do not have one, order one now, install it ASAP, and then tell me what it reads.)

How do you have a line going from your manifold to your BOV, but do not have a BOV installed?

Please post more clearly what your vacuum routing is like. Pictures are always helpful. It sounds like a big vacuum/boost leak.

pics will help

the vacuume line is currently running from mani to between the MAF and turbo (this line will go to the BOV when it is installed). the other line was connected in the previous set up to either the waste gate on the aerodyne turbo or the air box, im not sure. boost gauge broke and so did camera (seperate incidentces). disregard this thread until i get my BOV in, im thinking that should help alot.

i do still want to know if running a turbo at 6-7psi without a BOV can hurt it though, anyone?

no that wont hurt the turbo....but yes it will kill your motor when you just random do odd things....

So you don't have a working boost gauge, and you have a vacuum line run from your intake manifold to your intake tube pre-turbo? The turbo is just sucking all its own air.

Read the FAQs before posting again.

turn the car off b4 somthing dies,
take lots of pictures,
describe i detail whats wrong,

u have to help us to help u

someone please tell me that this is just a joke. i can not believe what i am reading.
i think this link will help you out a bunch. post number 8
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4288
read it
read it again
and read it couple more times.

sell car to someone with a brain, and get a civic hatch and leave it stock...maybe a fart can and some rimz...stay away from power mods...
best advice i can give you

All right, come on, let's help him out.

Zebro, we need pictures. Did you connect a vaccum line from the INTAKE MANIFOLD back to the tube between the MAF and TURBO or did you mis-speak when you said that?

Typically, not having any power when first intalling a turbo kit can mean a few things.

1: You've connected your intake manifold to your intake tube.
2: You've got a boost leak due to poorly installed couplers.
3: You are either extremely rich or extremely lean.
4: Your timing is way off.
5: Your catalytic converter is clogged and preventing spool.
6... there are a few more, but we really need pictures.

hey whaaamx5: bite me. ill bet your build went smooth as silk.

im having to rework the turbo system because the last "kit" that was on it (an aerodyne) quit working. so im kinda having to figure out whats been done to the car as i go. sorry about the lack of pics, my camera is temporarily out of service, but im working on it.

in lue of pics let me try to paint a picture for you: refer to http://www.rev2red.com/images/cars/faq/bov.jpg http://www.rev2red.com/images/cars/faq/bov.jpg
notice that there are two vacuume lines coming off the mani JUST engine side of the TB. the one on the left is t-ed off; one end goes to canister purge solenoid valve (refer to page 6-1 in the 90-97 miata haynes repair manual). the other end of this T runs currently to the intake tube between turbo and MAF, but WILL run to the BOV as of friday (assuming this is the correct line to run to BOV).

the vac line on the right (in the pic its the one that goes in the direction of the front of the car) is also t-ed off. one end runs to an MSD miata specific boost controler. from what i understand this "boost controler" controls timing. the other end of this T off the mani runs to a T that connected to the cruise control and the other end runs through the fire wall left of the brake booster. i cut (not literally) the cruise control out of this system.

there is also a vac line coming out of the tube between the TB and Turbo. i have this connected to the tube between the MAF and turbo. this end i dont have a clue what to do with. any idea where this one should go?

i hooked it up this way because thats the way it was when the aerodyne went the way of the dodo (boost gauge took a crap about he same time). so like i said, im having to figure it out as i go. help is appreciated, haters are not.

thank you to the ones trying to help.

You'll do well to watch your fucking mouth when you talk to senior members.

This is a big problem. You need to remove the T and get rid of the line going into the intake tube between turbo and MAF. That one should go to your BOV. If you don't currently have a line going to your BOV and it's installed, that's a big problem too.

When you say between the turbo and TB, are you saying it's on the intercooler pipes? Remove it and cap the ends, it doesn't belong.

No sweat... and don't worry about Whaam, he's been here 6months and half his posts are in the BS forum.

As samnavy said, the line to your intake tube needs to be capped off. This is essentially a gigantic boost leak.

As far as I'm concerned the only vacuum lines you should be running are to a boost gauge, a wastegate or boost controller and a BOV. Everything else is non-essential. Start from there and you can add other systems back in as needed.

The port on your intake tube should have a line from the valve cover, preferably with a catch can installed in line. This is less essential, but a very good idea.

ok punk, if i wasn't trying to help i would have not read your post to begin with...
half the shit you said didn't make sense, how the fuck was i supposed to help you...

little common sense goes a long way, and yes i BS a lot, but i help where i can and see the person did their leg work beforehand...i didn't feel that to be the case...my appologies Sam

to OP, if you want to keep your miata, do yourself a favor and do not go any further without a BOV and boost gauge
go buy somenew vac hose from NAPA or like, and seek advice via photos and guidance of members on how to run your vac lines once you are ready, right now your pissing against the wind...
good luck



ps-i know some people do not have money to just go buy a new gauge BOV and various other goodies, is this is the case for you, save up and then do it the right way, you are risking too much to cut corners here

If you can't afford a boost gauge and a BOV, you can't afford a turbocharged Miata.

BOV is in place, and the line that was T-ed off the intake mani is now on the BOV. remember what i said about figuring it out as i went; turns out the vac line "between the TB and turbo" was already blocked off at the nipple. i will tell you how it runs tommorow when ive had more time to drive it but it does feel better. how do i adjust the BOV (ie. how do i know when to stop tightening or lossening the screw)? the BOV has a allen screw coming out the top with a retainer nut. does the BOV have to be tested under load or can i do it parked and just rev the motor?

if i were you i would not rev the motor very much, you have no idea how much boost you are pushing, and you are not intercooled right now right?
no one can really tell you how tight your BOV should be
what BOV is it and how does it behave at idle? ie does it stay open, is it sealed? etc.
also, once you get your boost gauge, and you know how much boost you should be running, thats how you will be able to figure out how tight your BOV should be, but more on that once you get there
next, i assume you are not running a MAP sensor, i assume so b/c you still have your AFM in place, telling you this b/c with this kind of set up you should really run a recirc valve, not a VTA, make sure you run it from BOV to between turbo and AFM (pre-turbo, naturally)
good luck
now go back to sucking on your pacifier

no intercooler, right. But what difference does that make (appart from cooler air)? my BOV is something like: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PURPL...spagenameZWDVW only mine has a second nipple on the non-colored part. somebody (brainiack i think) told me that the other nipple was to help open the BOV quicker, should i run the vac line from between the TB and turbo to this nipple? as far as i can tell the BOV is closed at idle but im not sure as it is being recirced (between the AFM and turbo, naturally). when im driving and i let off the throttle i can hear a whoosh, but it also made that noise before the BOV (only its a bit quieter now with the BOV). apart from running it withouth the recirc tube to the intake how can i tell if its functioning properly?
i should tell you that i have the BOV at its loosest setting (ie. the top screw as far out as possible).
you say i need a boost gauge to tell me how much boost im pushing but the wastegate actuator on my turbo is a 6-7psi actuator off a volvo, are you saying that i cant trust the actuator to limit the boost to 6-7psi?
btw whaaamx5 thats not a pacifier you hear me sucking on, its you wife's tit.
(whaaamx5: at this point im just giving you back shit for kicks, dont take it personal, its ment in fun)
mmmmmm tities

^ oh no you di int.

i would like to give you a friendly tip. please park your car before you can sort out what is what because if you don't know what the intercooler is good for you may mess up your engine. if you increase timing without a intercooler you may be in big trouble. read the sticky on DIY turbo kit. also you need to figure out how to work the BOV. it is rather important. if you don't have an BOV you should not hear the woosh sound. that is certain. getting the basics down before testing is vital you don't want to mess an engine up. lets start from scratch and return all the vacuums to stock and go from there. i would redo it if i was you to eliminate uncertainties.i know it may sound dumb but it may be worth it. good luck

I like this guy... HE STAYS!!!

Zebro, update your profile with where you live... somebody on this board might be local and can come over tomorrow and hook it up.

In either case, I think the people telling you to park your car are right. The wastegate spring can be trusted to be no tighter than stock, so you probably aren't running more than 6-7psi. But there are so many other things horribly fucked up, you're gonna hurt it. There may be other things wrong that you're not telling us simply because you don't know any better. Park it before you blow it... good advice.

What you really need is somebody who knows how to properly set up a turbo system... not a shop or a pro, but somebody local to you that you trust who has done a few and can just come over and look at it and route the hoses/lines properly.

You absolutely need a boost gauge.
You absolutely need to check your timing and see where it's at.

Correct!!!!!!!!!

here a few reason you need a boost guage

First you have to worry that you actuator may not be opening enough and cause you to get a boost spike, which could blow up your motor.

Second if you have a boost leak then you may not be making the boost you need and could over spinning your turbo causing it to die early.

Third a gauge will tell you if something start to go wrong before it takes out your motor.

I got a boost gauge in my car with a turbo cause I been using it as a vacuum gauge to help spot problems before the turbo.

not easily offended here, only cause i dont have a wife though...she left me for your mother ;) but we still play, the three of us lol

but yeah, park car until you get a gauge, just trust, its not worth it

You are not allowed to post again until you get a boost gauge.

^+1 you're best bet would be to have some sort of device to allow you to read your numbers. guessing and self calculations are usually bad ideas, especially when you "think" it's doing one thing, but really doing another.

you dont want to know what i had to do to get my hands on a camera to take these pics. needless to say she was nasty. whaaamx5 i think you know her. she did after all give birth to you. :)

white string is wraped around the vac line being discussed.

lets call this pic T1. the line with the string goes to the boost gauge (boost gauge is busted). the other end of the T is in the next pic and goes to the miata specific MSD "boost controller"
https://www.miataturbo.net/gallery/f...3/img_0114.jpg

other end of T1.
https://www.miataturbo.net/gallery/f...3/img_0115.jpg

the vac line off T1 going into the firewall, this line goes to the boost gauge (that does not work)
https://www.miataturbo.net/gallery/f...3/img_0119.jpg

we will refer to this T as T2. the branch (line) with the string on it goes to the BOV. the other end goes to the canister purge solenoid valve (next pic)
https://www.miataturbo.net/gallery/f...3/img_0116.jpg

this is the line coming off T2 connecting to the canister purge solenoid valve
(shown in pic)
https://www.miataturbo.net/gallery/f...3/img_0117.jpg

disregard the string on the left. the BOV is off T2
https://www.miataturbo.net/gallery/f...3/img_0113.jpg

the red coupler (blurry) connects to the TB. the black tube angles straight down. the vac line with the string goes... well i dont know where the hell its supposed to go. on the old aerodyne setup it ran to the waste gate. i should also add that the nipple where this line connects to the tube is blocked up (not sure if its on purpose).
https://www.miataturbo.net/gallery/f...3/img_0118.jpg

CARTECH fuel reg. should this line be open to the atmosphere?
https://www.miataturbo.net/gallery/f...3/img_0120.jpg

BOV, its not pretty but it works.
https://www.miataturbo.net/gallery/f.../8/3/miata.jpg

showing the two nipples coming off the BOV. its kinda hard to get a camera in there.
https://www.miataturbo.net/gallery/f...3/img_0127.jpg

THE BIG PICTURE
https://www.miataturbo.net/gallery/f...8/3/miata1.jpg

btw this is what an aerodyne looks like
https://www.miataturbo.net/gallery/f...3/img_0130.jpg

whaaamx5's mom in her younger years. (this is where i got the camera). i dont really want to talk about it!
http://dogfightatbankstown.typepad.c...arded_lady.jpg
whaaamx5-> :magna: <-me

What the hell are we supposed to be looking at?

You really do need a boost guage. Even a home-depot, air compressor pressure guage or bike pump guage would work, but you need to know where you're at.

I'd say remove the BOV entirely, and block off every port that doesn't go between the turbo and the intake. If you have an air compressor, blow air in and listen for leaks.

You definately CAN blow up your motor in 1 second of something going wrong, do you don't want to make assumptions, and a boost guage will help you out of many of the situations that can cause problems.

Does the turbo spin freely? Can you feel air blowing in or out anywhere when it's running? If you blip the throttle under the hood, does the BOV vent?

<edit> you could pull the hose off the far end of the BOV and check for leaks when it shouldn't, check for blowing when it should.

uhhh.........my mom? im not sure you would want to...

will this actually work?

Zebro... you're gonna blow your shit up unless you get a boost gauge. Go to fucking Pep Boys and spend $30 on the cheapest Sunpro one they've got.

Now, the long one I've circled seems to be connected to nothing on both ends. Remove it... just adds confusion.

The one I've boxed... what's it connected to up on the fender?

And for shizzle, will somebody near Tallahassee go see what's wrong with this car?!!

planning on doing it here directly. i taced the vac line out of my current (non-working)boost gauge, gauge is getting vacume, its just broke, but i had to be sure.

ill get back to you on the boxed line

out of curiousity will a tire pressure gauge work?

that line doesnt go into the fender, its just a really long vac line, it goes to the boost gauge, there used to be a T for it to also connect to the cruise control; but thats gone now. that line now goes dircetly and solely to the boost gauge.

and yes, anyone near tallahassee who could help would be great.

given the pictures, does it look like there is anything connected to the wrong place or what?

this may not help except to add to the confusion, but unless my gas gauge is wrong, ive eaten up a half tank and only put 60ish miles on the tank (not even taking it above 3k rpms)

the lines connected can stretch to new york if you want trimm the fuckeres a bit less confusion. i am following a line that goes over under some other and loose track. damn you are doing some crazy loops and shit here. less is sometimes better.

theres no denying the truth. im leaving them slack and everything else generally sloppy (but functional) till i figure it all out. then ill make it elegant.

for anyone thats following: i bought a boost gauge today (auto meter) but it was broken from the store. the old one works but it says im pulling vacuume below 4k rpm and 4psi after (needless to say its broke). ill get a new one tomorrow or monday. is it worth spending the extra few buck to get a boost gauge that read vac and boost? how accurate can i expect a mechanical gauge to be?

thanks to everyone whos trying to help. even you whaaamx5.

p.s. is strange that my exhaust manifold and exhaust housing on the turbo glow red when the car is driven HARD? (glowing is perceived at night)

Why would you just assume it's broken? If you have a large boost leak like I and others have been suggesting those may be accurate numbers. Do a boost leak test.

Yes that is normal, but you should not be driving the car hard, or at all until you solve this issue.

youre right, the old gauge is not broken. i installed a new auto meter gauge today and it reads the same. i assumed it was broken because i thought id be pushing more boost, like 7psi. does everyone have their boost gauge T-ed off their intake mani? does anyone have it T-ed before the TB?

i let a friend drive my car the other day and apparently its not all that down on power. i just thought it would have more.

now that i have a boost gauge; how should i adjust my BOV?

found it! one of the old couplers was split. i found it when i noticed the rad fan spinning even when the fan was off. much improved now.

OMG, you serious? glad you found it...
you still need to sort those lines out though, looks like a hot mess
mechanical boost gauge are accurate to a point, usually less at higher boost
IMO it is worth it to have the vac displayed as well, it helps in cases like these, if your gauge looks broken, you know there is a vac/boost leak there and you will know in the future what to look for...
you just learned a valuable lesson through trial and error, congrats


ps-and even you are welcome

ANY ANY vacuum source needs to be T-ed off your intake manifold.