My newest Absurdflow manifold: BEGI FM tubular replacement
 

I'm in the process of piecing together my newest manifold. It is a tubular manifold that hopefully will put the turbo in the same location as the cast manifolds from BEGI and FM. People have asked me to do something that fits with A/C and P/S (duh), and after jiging the 3" bellmouth downpipe for the BEGI 1.8 kit I figured I should try to make a tubular manifold. That way it clears A/C & P/S and you could use all the gorgeous BEGI accessories/heat shields/plumbing/etc. Or FM's silicone I guess.

I don't know if it will flow as good as BEGI's (I've never seen a FM) but hopefully we will find out on the May 2 dyno day. I plan to dyno it on my internally stock '94 1.8 with the Absurdflow 3" bellmouth downpipe and my full 3" exhaust. Horray for single turbos I guess. Oh, yeah I'll be using a Garrett GT2560R, most likely from Paul or if that doesn't work out I'll take my oldass 2560 out of the subie. I'll run 12 or 14 psi, whatever we here have as a good comparison. I think johndoe might be the closest with his SGDP 2560 '94???

If it all works out, price will be more than BEGI's manifold but not much more. My downpipe is already cheaper than theirs. I don't have access to chinese turbos. Once the US gets more 2560's I hope to be around $2k for the turbo, manifold, and DP. If I make no more power than theirs then this was all for my own personal enjoyment :)

I'm not done yet and the first one is always crude, but May 2 is still a ways away, right?
Pics:
http://www.inoneear.com/outtheother/...dflowbegi1.jpg

http://www.inoneear.com/outtheother/...dflowbegi2.jpg

http://www.inoneear.com/outtheother/...dflowbegi3.jpg

http://www.inoneear.com/outtheother/...dflowbegi4.jpg

http://www.inoneear.com/outtheother/...dflowbegi5.jpg
Buy this stuff, I need to pay for that countertop. ;)

The ol' downpipe, true 3" bellmouthed stainless with magnaflow metal core cat. This will be close to $650 seperately, with the cat:
http://www.inoneear.com/outtheother/...wbegi3indp.JPG

Thanks to those who have helped me with this, you know who you are.

Good job, sir.

<BS deleted.>

Nice work Tim. The compatibility with the AC/PS will definitely make me think about this in the future.

Thanks buddy.

Thanks, and I hope Steph/BEGI doesn't have a problem. I doubt they will, I'm small fries. Or maybe she won't notice this thread. I'm just some guy with some cheapass Harbor Freight tools and a really nice welder (seriously if you guys saw what I use to make these manifolds you all would be doing it). I don't want to mess up my dad's business relationship with them either. I don't have anything to do with Shore Motorsports other than using their power to run my welder and doing "fab work" under their name after my real job if they need the help. I figure now that I have a house I can do this stuff on my time and start to seperate from Shore Motorsports and into the Absurdflow name.

BEGI makes nice stuff at great prices and are very eager to please. We are very lucky to have a vendor like that in our community.

really? lol my wallet says different :giggle:

This is what you need to beat.

http://www.miatamx5.com/dynoruns/11-15-08/johndoe.jpg


I'm thinking you'll come up with a bit more max hp&tq but you'll make it sooner too. I predict you'll be crossing that 200ft-lb line earlier, somewhere between the 3600rpm that Jan does and the 3100 Artie & I do. More torque earlier is where it's at.

Tim, do you make v-band flanged downpipes?

I think the design looks great Tim. Do you, or will you offer the 3'' bellmouth without the cat?

and possibly a flexpipe..

The cat should be a slip fit, so I don't see why he wouldn't. He should just offer clamps to swap the cat in/out with a test pipe. Or for the anti-y8s crowd, he could just weld in a straight pipe.

Frank

There's really no need for a flex pipe in most cases. It's just a point of failure. The exhaust is cushioned by the hangars so there should be some play when the motor is torquing.

Frank

Why am I speaking for Tim? I should STFU now. ;)

Frank

dude I tell ya I get no respect. no respect at all. /dangerfield.

Tims,

I still dont like the bellmouth.

Why can't you do a siamese pipe setup? Stick a 1-1/4 pipe on the side of a 2-1/4 pipe (i think that's the outlet) and then merge them into a 3 inch in the downpipe after a foot or so. you want ABSURD flow, I bet that tickles paul's prostate about 100 rpm sooner.

he's done it before:

http://www.shoremotorsports.com/pics...ust/MSMDP5.JPG

pwnd lol and he tells noobs to search lol

tim if you wanna make one for the 1.6 lemme know. i have the dp to match. and i have a potential buyer for my begi manifold if i choose absurdflow again

I'm taking these prices off BEGI's site. I don't know if they offer some package that I'm missing. This is for a '94:

94 stainless SGDP: $505
3" swaged end: $55
3" metal cat: $160 without flanges, $240 with flanges.

$650<$720 if you don't like flanges<$800 if you do

You (Brian) paid $50 to get the old stuff removed, mods made to your firewall and trans*, rerouting the oil pressure line to where it should be, retapping the crappy holes in your turbo, and installing the new downpipe. Cheap I think.

*trimming needs to be done to the firewall shelf and to that silly useless tang on the side of the trans to get this downpipe to fit.

Thanks Paul. 12 or 14 psi? I could search....

I could but they are $$$. I don't even use them and I'm baller.

I will probably offer a "race only" downpipe without the cat. The flange would end after the cat. My downpipe jig goes to the flange at the beginning of the cat back. I could get an oem cat and sorta make another jig to go before that cat but that would make too much sense. Plus if you are using a downpipe that flows like this one you shouldn't be using anything other than a good 3" metal cat or no cat. And the flange angles on the OEM stuff is retarded, it makes a lot of sense to just get rid of them.

Sure, there's room. I have flex sections on the downpipes on my car, but most of my recent (past 2 years or so) downpipes I haven't used them and so far so good. They do have added cost too, like V-bands :(

cool deal man. It's surprising how loud the 1.6 crowd can be. Thanks for the offer, lets first see if these move and if they work any better than the cast pieces. If it's not much better than it's not worth my time I guess.

Oh hell yeah on that pipe :) 2.25 for ~2", smooth Burns transitions to 2.5" for a little then another to 3" right before the WG blends. Yummy.

Bellmouths worked well for me, paul, artie, and the subie crowd tends to see better results with them than with the divorced WG setups. Plus there's still people giving BEGI grief over the flapper blocking the WG tube which even though it isn't true you still have to convince the buyer otherwise.

I don't know personally what would be better performance wise. Bellmouths are a little easier & cheaper than divorced...IF (big IF) there is a positive difference to divorced WG's, is the few extra hp worth the much extra $?

If there was demand I could do one. Actually that first bend would probably be easier. That downpipe I made for evan K does look sexy and it was surprisingly easy to do :) Maybe it's been too long to remember otherwise. Divorced WG on the "standard" Absurdflow manifold would be pretty easy to do...hmmm

No problem here. Structurally, it is not all that different than our manifold. Very artistic though.
Stephanie

ONLY the MSM gets a CAT. So your price listing is slightly mis-leading.

And the 3" outlet is not always needed. All NB downpipes that end in 2.75" will bolt up to a 3" exhaust making the 3" outlet a moot point. The only time a 3" outlet would be needed is on a NA car. Then it locks you into a 3" exhaust becuse it will not bolt up to a stock size or aftermarket size exhaust.
Stephanie

Thank you Steph, that means a lot to me.

I do not want to be misleading. Thank you for the clarifiation.

Why does only the MSM get a cat? What if I want to purchase a 3" metal cat for my '94 1.8 to go with my stainless SGDP? Is the price not $240 for a 3" metal cat for a '94 1.8?

Tim,

Awesome work!! It's good to see this thing coming along!

I'm thinking even simpler than that. just run the WG line 6 inches and tie it into the main pipe there. i forget how much space the WG needs to open though.

here is a not to scale view.

wait. i've seen this somewhere.

on the left:
http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/produ...s/IMG_2164.jpg

That was about 14.5psi Tim. Heat soaked like a motherfucker as well.

Tim, that's gorgeous. I'm eager to see how much better it flows vs. a cast BEGi piece. I wouldn't mind stepping up to a nicer exhaust manifold one of these days.

Befitting its owner. :laugh:

Because the 1.6L, 1.8L, and 99-04's have the cat in the mid pipe. No reason to add a second one unless it fails emissions. It is only stock in the downpipe/header pipe on the MSM. The MSM then has a second CAT in the mid pipe. Strange, but that is Mazda....
Stephanie

The point here Stephanie is if you want to get a better flowing DOWNPIPE AND CAT for your turbo Miata, Tim's setup comes out cheaper than buying your downpipe and a high flow cat from you. What's the point of going with a better flowing downpipe to force it throw a restrictive factory cat?

Tim's setup reaches and bolts up to 90-97 factory and aftermarket catbacks.

Why?

because your prostate is sensitive?

because that bellmouth will impede flow. you'll get turbulence coming out of the turbine.

Oh yeah, I noticed that on my last 3 dynos sessions.

ok i know you get snippy when people question how awesome your setup is. i only said 100 rpm sooner spool, not 300 more horsepressure.

im glad i have the shittest wastegate outlet design possible. if my exhaust flowed any better i wouldn't be able control all the creep. i still make 11psi on a 6psi wastegate.

i have a 2.25" outlet, no bellmouth.

So with my 7psi actuator (that is most likely blowing open from the inside) I should make over 200ft-lbs of torque at 3050rpm instead of 3150 if I get a separated gas design? Sweet. Tim, get on it.

you might. see when gases flow through a change in cross section, the flow velocity decreases and creates backpressure.

it's the same reason you dont want to (ahem scott) run a gutted cat instead of a straight pipe.

Isn't this what the new BEGI standard pipe is? I guess just not 3"?

Probably, but by how much? How much does a 2.25 or 2.5" impede flow over a 3"? Who knows. All I can do is try to dyno at the same time and on the same dyno as other setups and let the consumer choose.

If you want it, you got it.

Damn it I forgot my sarcasm meter
http://doesitallmatter.files.wordpre...casmmeter2.gif

shhh he was going to build it !!

tim, if you tell me the centerline radius of the pipes you can get and wall thickness and such, I can just CAD up my absurd pipe for paul's extra 100 rpm. perhaps there could be a little comparo at the dyno again. whee.

The vent tube on the BEGI-S pipe is now 6.5" to 7" long.
Stephanie

I'm sorry, I meant that your standard BEGI-S pipe is not 3" in diameter. Otherwise y8s drawing does look similar to your BEGI-S pipe and I guess FM's cast piece too.

thanks but I can CAD up my own :p Kinda hard to do the downpipe without having the entire underside of the car modeled too. I do use a modular Faro arm here at work...hmmmmmm...I don't think they'd let me borrow it for the night though. I don't think my salary can cover it.

I use 6" centerline 3" pipe, .060 wall. I use the usual pipes everyone else can get. 99% of the stuff is from Vibrant, other stuff is from Burns if vibrant/keystone is out of stock. You can get the centerline radii of the smaller pipes off vibrants website.

EDIT: If I were building a downpipe for my personal car, I'd be a bellmouth and no because it could be easier. When you take a 3" pipe and make it oval, it's about ~2.25" wide anyway and that 2.25" edge of the oval is centered over the turbine outlet. It's not like a 3" pipe is right over a 2.25 hole and there is no taper. So at least half of the turbine outlet is a smooth transition, the side against the oval edge of the bellmouth. The other half of the oval bellmouth is there for the rest of the exhaust and WG gasses to GTFO.

ok simpler idea then.

can you weld a divider into the oval?

The owner of Jesel says he'd never use 80% of the things we make here.

So yeah, I can weld a divider into the oval. The customer is always right.

The downpipe at the dyno day will not have a divider.

IF I were to do a divider, it'd be a burns transition cut in half.

Maybe just a section of 2.25" pipe or whatever protruding into the turbine discharge, but not going really deep into the bellmouth. Basically, something to keep the wasted charge from blasting sideways and disrupting the main flow at small wastegate openings. Like is cast into one version of the GT2560R.

Probably easier to do that welding it into the turbine housing, as long as you don't warp it, and if you have that available to work on. That's what was done on SCC's project Silvia Disco Potato.

Update.

I spent yesterday removing the twins and making this other stuff fit (and I only forgot to tighten one thing! woohoo). I ported the wastegate on Paul's donor 2560; the spring pressure is 8psi using the garrett wastegate actuator. It spools quicker than the twins and the exhaust is louder. I am running the same tune so far as the twins, I assume that will probably change. But so far so good. I will aim for at 14-14.5psi at the dyno day to try to accurately compare JohnDoe's SGDP dyno plot posted earlier.

The orange discoloring on the manifold is the paint I didn't remove from the weld elbow.

Before:
http://www.inoneear.com/outtheother/...twinsfront.JPG

After:
http://www.inoneear.com/outtheother/...wbegifront.JPG

Close up:
http://www.inoneear.com/outtheother/...rdflowbegi.JPG

I made 264rwhp @ 12psi on my first run, 268@ 13psi on the 5th run with noticeable heat soak (notice spool difference). Peak boost was 14psi, dropping off around 5000rpm.

John Doe's was 14.5psi at some point. I am not sure if he was able to hold it to redline/hp peak. I sent him a PM to find out.

Big spool difference compared to the cast BEGI/SS SGDP combo.

For sale ad coming soon after I get info from JohnDoe and my datalogs to be specific about spool rpms, etc.

damn, that's awesome Tim. Any plans for us 1.6 guys?
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I'll build whatever.