Need Turbocharger Advice
 

A turbo setup has its appeal. I want to do the twin SC setup, but it's looking like I will turbo charge it instead. I'm sure everyone here already knows turbos are better anyway.:eek5:

So, I need to know what turbo I should use. I know, that's a newb question right. I know a little about turbos and I'm doing my best to learn. I've read the turbo specific sections of Maximum Boost, though I certainly need to reread it. (I've already read Supercharged cover to cover)

I want to make big power. 300 whp minimum, but would like to make more as I think the stock motor will take it. I will build a nice custom manifold, 3" exhaust, etc. I have a lot of head work. I'm not really worried about spool or "lag" as I will have nitrous to spool the turbo.

I've looked at the eBay turbo's per Markp's suggestion. The Chinacharger t3/t4 "with the blue tag" is no longer on there unfortunately. Besides, I think I would rather pay up front for a name brand turbo for peace of mind as this is my college car/daily driver.

Others have suggested avoiding the eBay turbos and getting a name brand one. That sounds fine to me. I'll have the money this summer to buy a good one, be it new or used. I'm considering the following turbos offered by TunerToys:


Garrett T3 60-1 with .63AR (715583-5006) - $615 Shipped
Garrett T3 60-1 with .82AR (715583-5007) - $615.00 Shipped
Garrett T3/T4E 60trim, 63ar - $583 shipped

The only difference between the first two is the A/R of the turbine. The third is a Garret t3/t4. Which turbo would be the best choice for say 300whp? 350whp? It's my understanding the larger A/R of the turbine, the more lag, but more HP. That's a trade off I'm willing to make.

Thanks.

Anyone? Looking for something that would spool around 5K on a stock motor but would make huge power. I have headwork and nitrous to spool it sooner.

go with the T3/T4 fitty trim

then get the .63, the .82 probably wouldn't spool till 6-7k. ;)


the 60-1 is insanely large....thats a 600hp wheel. the to4e 60 trim is more inline at 450HP.

I think you haven't had much response because you're asking for a couple things that are mutually exclusive. If you're "only" looking for ~325 whp, then you don't need a turbo that spools at 5k rpm. Something T3 with a 63A/R turbine is in your future, just pick your compressor to suit. A 50 trim maybe. Which is what I'm leaning towards myself.

For clarity, I'm NOT 'only' looking for 300whp. I would like to buy a turbo that will take me to 400whp up front, and build to it. I plan to go straight to 300whp. I'll only be at the 250whp range long enough to tune those cells and make sure everything is safe. Then I turn up the boost and tune again. Then get the WI going and make sure everything is ready, then push it further.

This looks promising: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GENUI...QQcmdZViewItem

Only question is I don't see the word Garret on the compressor housing.

yeah, my thoughts as well, make sure you pay with credit card and if it's not a garrett, reverse your charge in claim of false advertising, the site clearly says genuine garrett, so up their ass if it's not

Includes a Garrett TA34 stage 2 turbine wheel and Turbonetics .63 a/r turbine housing with the standard Ford 5 bolt T3 exhaust outlet flange.

then it's not really a genuine Garrett now is it?!

Isn't Turbonetics like a china thing?
if so, you can alwys buy a BB t3t4 cartrige and source whatever housings you want for it...i thnink i saw a GT35 BB cartridge for $400ish...

turbonetics makes good stuff. this turbo should be advertised as rebuilt, or home built, not genuine

i think i confeused them with turboXS or something...

IMO you are better off buying a new garrett turbo from garrett retailer for $150 more. That'll remove the majority of risk associated with the eBay turbos. I just did a bunch of shopping around and TunerToys had very competitive pricing. If you do have a problem after the purchase you have somebody to go to.

true that as well, i keep forgetting how bad ebay has gotten

Ok, so we have the t3/t4 setup. Likely a .63 A/R turbine. I see "50 trim" used a few times. There is a 57 and 60 trim listed on TT's site. I suppose he can order the 50 though I need to verify that. Would I be better off with a 57 or 60 trim? What effects would a larger compressor have if I keep the same .63 A/R turbine?

Based on other 1.8L miata dynos, I'd imagine that you'd be pretty happy with the 50 trim considering that you plan on headwork and possibly nitrous to spool the turbo. Using a stage 3 turbine in the 0.63 A/R, would get you north of 300 and pretty close to 400 depending upon your setup AND it should spool easily before 5k. Take a look at eliminator's dyno results on m.net. Last I checked with built engine, headwork, cams he made north of 500rwhp with a 0.8x A/R turbine and made ~420rwhp with the 0.63 A/R turbine.

FWIW, if you wanted to go chinacharger which iirc is a copy of the 57 trim, they do still have those blue tag units on ebay, but just not the same seller that markp got it from. A larger compressor trim/wheel will create later spool, but if you meet your goals with the "smaller" turbo without straining it (aka out of efficiency range/creating excessive heat) and at earlier rpm, why go larger if not necessary?

Also, not sure about budget/footprint constraints but you might want to also take a look at the GT3071/3076.

Yea, for clarity I already have the headwork and nitrous on the car, that's why I figure I could run a large one and be ok. I don't want to go larger than necessary. I know little about these things so I'm asking. If a 50 trim will take me to 400whp, great, that will work. Sounds like your saying it took eliminator to 500 with just a turbine swap. In that case, I would infer that a 57 or 60 trim would be overkill.

you guys talking about a 50 trim to4e compressor? because a t3 50 trim isn't efficient enough to make 400 whp.

Hmm, it's not? Well, what would you suggest and why? I'm all ears for opinions. Perhaps a t3 60 trim with a .63 A/R?

Yup I was talking T04E. A T3 compressor wheel can make 300 if you push it to the limits, but to comfortably reach 300 and more you will need a some form of T4 compressor.

FWIW, a lot of honda guys love the 57 trim for their 1.8L, BUT their heads also flow waaaaaaay better than ours. I just said 50 trim as there is actual dyno info for a miata.

the compressor map for the 50 trim t3 looks like poop over 230 hp or so... but as mentioned in my dyno thread i'm pretty sure my turbine is too small.

pat: for your power goals I'd recommend a .63 turbine with a 50 trim to4e, that's what I'm planning to upgrade to in the future and it should support around 350 whp, more than that and you'll want to port the turbine (stage II/III) and maybe go up to a 57/60 trim t4 compressor.

you make no mention of building your bottom end for you end goal. are you planning on running turbo + nitrous @ over 300 whp without a bottom end build?

Yea, planing to run a stock bottom end for 1 year. That's the turbo I'm considering running. You mention that over 350whp, a compressor upsize would be favorable. If I were to buy the larger compressor now, what would be the downside? Would it just hurt spool? Reason I ask is I'd like to buy it once and be done. If we're talking say 200 RPM difference in spool I could live with that. I'll have nitrous to get it going anyway when it matters.

Bud, you've been here long enough that I hope you know that a stock bottom end isn't going to like 300whp and nitrous on top of that for long...

Where's Paul? He's doing it. I'm not gonna spray all for adding hp, just to spool a big turbo at 3K instead of 5K. I know that's gonna be tough on it for sure, and truth be told I'd love to just push it to see what it will take. Say, get it to 300whp, then once my progressive WI and every other supporting thing is dialed in, just crank up the boost and see what it will take. With a conservative redline I bet I could sit around 350whp for year.

Paul is at 270. You have fun with stock rods and 350whp.

Paul hit 300 at the dyno day thingy. Bell seems to think RPM's are what kill stock rods, not HP. We'll see...

We certainly will. Hats off if you make it a year at 350whp on stock rods.

fwiw I run a home-brew saab/international T3/T4. It's a T3 .48 (unknown trim) turbine with a T4 .60 60t compressor and it moves too much air. =) I'm shooting for 450hp+ and I'm pretty sure my compressor will do it. The turbine on the other hand is too small at .48 but it spools the T4 pretty quick. Thing sounds like a jet. I should put up some av clips. I'm looking for opinions on turbines as well. I'm waiting to hear from mjm with their opinion.

a .48 T3 turbine housing is plenty big (17 lb/min)....equivalent of a .63 A/R T25 housing, and we all know those get the job done just fine. The .63 T3 housing will be larger (21 lb/min) than you need on most setups, but Pat can make due however. There are a lot of us with T3s and T3/T4 with the .48 housing and no torque/boost loss at redline making over 250rwhp. Remember 97.7 x 7000 / 3456 = 197 CFM or 13.5 lb/min, no reason to get a housing design for 21 lb/min when you can't produce near that amount of airflow.