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-   -   Nuts and Studs- My shit is loose! (https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/nuts-studs-my-shit-loose-12702/)

samnavy 09-18-2007 10:12 AM

Nuts and Studs- My shit is loose!
 
Nothing gay in here, just legit hardware stuff.

So, I've been using shitty non-recommended nuts from autozone on mani/dp. It takes them about 2 months to get a little loose and I just tighten them every time I'm under there. I didn't get them in time and 3 nuts on my mani backed out leaving the whole weight of the turbo/dp on one stud. It broke off in the mani.

I called Corky and he said to mail him the mani and turbine housing and they'd drill/tap them for larger studs. I don't mind paying for that, but I don't hear about this being a big problem, so I just think I need better nuts.

I'm going to have the stud drilled out at a machine shop by somebody with the right tools... and then I'm going to buy proper nuts. If I still have problems, I'll send it to Corky in a few months.

Corky said he didn't think brass nuts could be trusted at that heat. I tried the nuts that are oval on the top side and they just back out the stud when I need to remove them and then I destroy the stud getting them off... no good. What about lock-washers? I don't think they make a threadlocker to take those temps? Locking wire?

What have other people found for solutions?
Links to purchase sites appreciated if you've got'em.

Arkmage 09-18-2007 10:16 AM

two options I'd try:

1) Serated Flange Nuts (require more torque to remove than to install and don't pooch the studs)

2) safety wire the fuckers.

Ben 09-18-2007 10:32 AM

Sam, do the studs stay planted and the nuts come loose? Or does the whole stud come out, nut attached?

If former, you need this
http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?...umber=36-30300
If latter, you need to retap for bigger studs (I've had the latter, and beleive that the threads in the head must have stripped from over tightening.)

To get a stud out of the head, you need to do the double nut trick. Thread one nut on the stud, then add a second nut on top of it. With a wrench, apply counter-clockwise rotation to the nut closer to the motor. The second nut on top of it will capture the first nut, so the torque you add will go to breaking the stud out of the head. That's the only way I know of that will remove a stud without damaging it.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/135/studlytw4.png

jayc72 09-18-2007 11:48 AM

Sam if you are going to take it into a machine shop to have the stud removed, get the manifold drilled and re-tapped for a larger stud now. No point in half assing it at this point.

samnavy 09-18-2007 11:50 AM

The studs stay in fine... it's the nuts that come loose.
Those washers you linked look like the business. What kind of nuts should I use with them.

I'm up to speed on the double-nut trick. I've tightened up the 3 remaining nuts until I can figure out a solution. I just need a nut recommendation and I'm good I think. I'll order from FM today unless those are available elsewhere.

fmowry 09-18-2007 12:00 PM

mcmaster.com

Search for "lock washer" then click on wedge lock.

For nuts search "nuts", click "nuts", click "locking nuts", click "distorted thread".

Why do you need to remove the studs (using the oval nuts)? I'd rather just buy new studs when the time comes, use the oval nuts, and not worry about them backing off.

Frank

jayc72 09-18-2007 12:01 PM


Originally Posted by samnavy (Post 152388)
The studs stay in fine... it's the nuts that come loose.
Those washers you linked look like the business. What kind of nuts should I use with them.

I'm up to speed on the double-nut trick. I've tightened up the 3 remaining nuts until I can figure out a solution. I just need a nut recommendation and I'm good I think. I'll order from FM today unless those are available elsewhere.

I requested a sample directly from Nordlock, took a while to get them but it was free :) Think I ended up with 10 all in the same size (3/8")

jwarriner 09-18-2007 12:10 PM

On my DSM I always used the factory hardware on the manifold, which included washers and copper nuts. Some people tried using SS "upgraded" hardware they'd get at True Value but SS is shit for turbo hardware. Torque specs were 22lb/ft, they'd break if you went too far beyond that. They never backed off. Have you tried torquing everything when it's hot? My turbo bolts backed off so I torqued them a few lbs loose, drove the shit out of it and torqued them to full spec, they never backed off again.

People trying to "upgrade" to SS hardware proves that overthinking can be bad. When in doubt look at what the OEM does. There's a reason you don't have to re-torque your OEM manifold every two weeks.

BEGITechRep 09-18-2007 12:15 PM

Safety wire the little bastards. I did this on turbo installation 53,000 miles and 3 years ago. Never had one come loose since. A bit more work up front but saves time later.
Barry

Atlanta93LE 09-18-2007 12:16 PM

This thread makes me nervous. I'm using brass nuts on stainless lock washer. I haven't had to retighten since the preliminary retightening, but we'll see...

Ben 09-18-2007 12:30 PM

I've found that just one round of re-tightening is enough for mine.
Not like I've checked in a while though. Maybe I'll put that on the list.

TheBandit 09-18-2007 12:41 PM

I just use your conventional flange head bolts for my dp. For the turbo to mani connection, I am using stainless locking studs with stainless castle nuts, and I have never had a problem. You can only get them in standard sizes, no metric.
-Michael-

fmowry 09-18-2007 12:46 PM

Corky sent distorted thread nuts with his DP FWIW.

Frank

spike 09-18-2007 12:52 PM

Two choices,

1.Nord-lock washers with stover nuts.

2.stage 8 nuts and studs. www.stage8.com

samnavy 09-18-2007 01:11 PM


Originally Posted by jayc72 (Post 152386)
Sam if you are going to take it into a machine shop to have the stud removed, get the manifold drilled and re-tapped for a larger stud now. No point in half assing it at this point.

I hear that, but there's precious little room on the turbine housing. Bigger stud means bigger nut means bigger wrench and there's no room to a bigger wrench on it I think.

I got the distorted nuts originally with my DP form Begi, but the first time I had to take them off, they jammed on the studs and I had to pull the studs out and broke 2... which was a main imptetus to ditch the DSM Frankenturbo and get an SR20det T25 (best move ever). Maybe it was a fluke with old studs.

I'm gonna order those ratchet-nuts from FM and use some old ratchet nuts I have from a previous purchase... maybe try some locking wire as well. I'll take pics and let y'all know.

y8s 09-18-2007 01:13 PM

wtf you guys have nut problems like mad.

go to ATPturbo.com and order their copper coated nuts. they wont come loose after the first tightening.

they're AKA jetnuts, stover nuts, distorted thread nuts.

similarly you can go to an Audi dealer and order their turbo nuts--same thing basically and about 1/4 the price of the porsche branded ones.

or you can take your chances with whatever mcmaster sells (search 'stover nuts') but I dont trust them as much.

Matt

Stripes 09-18-2007 01:28 PM

^^^^I use these nuts and never had to re-tighten any of them.

jwarriner 09-18-2007 01:54 PM

I kept a full set of studs and nuts on hand so that anytime I had to R&R the manifold I could replace any suspect studs, they are hand tight in the head so they do tend to back out, and I also broke a few over the years. Just replace them, it's not a big deal and should be expected for those of us who like to tinker. If you haven't R&R'd as many manifolds as I have I can see why this might be unexpected or seem like a big deal but it really is normal.

Use the stover nuts and just plan on replacing a few studs every time you R&R the manifold. That's life.

greddymx5 09-18-2007 07:19 PM

Have you already try to remove the broken stud using an easy out?
http://www.toolprice.com/product/6710A
(you drill a hole into the broken stud and the easy out( looks like a tap with reversed thread ) turns the stud out off the manifold.

Worked perfect on my old greddy manifold.

(use stainless steal, raiser sharp drill, as the metal is very hard to drill into...Use a centerpoint to get in the middle off the hole and drill slowly and oil the drill with wd40 . Those drills get damaged easy from the heat. And yeah those drills are expensive...about 10dollar a piece)

For what it's worth, i use the fm rings and cheap simple nuts on my turbo.
Not one has come loose! Those rings are worth its weight in gold!!!
AND you can remove the turbo without breaking studs!! (wiggle the bolds the 1st 1/4 turn)

firedog25 09-18-2007 07:56 PM

From the title I was expecting Goatse.


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