Oil cooler thread.
 

So apparently 260°F oil temps are too high. :td: My car needs an oil cooler before I hit the track again. I've been poking around, and I know Mocal makes some sick shit, but Summit has some stuff that's about half the price, and I like half the price.

So what's the word? What's good, what's efficient, what sucks? Should I go plate or tube and fin? Plate seems to be a little more aesthetically pleasing, and it's pricier, so I assume it's a little more efficient and a little better. I was thinking about something like this:

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

As far as a sandwich adapter on the oil filter, I'm not sure where to go. Again, I've heard good things from Mocal, but if I can spend $50 instead of $90 I'll be a happy guy. A thermostat built into the sandwich adaptor is a must; I don't want to have to dick around with a separate one.

I was going to have Royal Brass do the lines, -10AN. I've heard of pressure drop issues with -8AN lines, and most guys seem to be using -10.

hey savington, whered you find a thermostat built into the sandwich adapter ? i was curious about a similar setup, but didn't wanna run extra an lines for a seprate thermostat.

nvrmd lol, i found it on the summit site.

but they don't have one for the miata specifically....will this one work ?

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...115+4294838764

Mocal sells an adaptor with either a 180F or 200F thermostat built in. The size is M20x1.5. It's cheaper than that one, too, like $90.

I know I'll be using a mocal with thermostat and a used RX7 oil cooler. Its gigantic and should cover any oil cooling issues for me.

My mounting is unique though... it'll be angled and under my Vmount radiator.

Speaking from personal experience, it doesn't take much oil cooler to get the job done. I am running the smallest bar & plate cooler that Earl's sells (3" x 4" core) and it is more than enough. With the Mocal thermostat-sandwich plate, my oil temp barely gets above 150, let alone the 190 that the thermostat is allegedly rated for.

Same cooler (different name) less money.
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/cooler1.htm

btw- 260f oil temp is far from dangerous on synthetic. Definitely heed joe's warning.

and the Mocal sandwich plate

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/mocal.htm

For those who have not ordered for RPW before, they rock. Great service, fast shipping.

The lines are the toughest part, anyone got a good link to some lines?

Honestly... for lines... try to find a hydraulic fittings place. Measure your lines using some clothing hanger (simulate stiff SS line) and mock up your line routes... then measure it. Then have them make the lines for you.

The lines aren't so hard. Just buy the hose ends and some -10AN hose by the foot from RPW or Pegasus and make 'em yourself. You don't need the fancy -AN wrenches, just a bench vise and a couple of SAE-sized open end wrenches. In a pinch, even vise-grips would probably work. Cutting the line cleanly takes a little practice. If you have access to a bandsaw or chop-saw, this will make life easier. Otherwise it's painter's tape and a hacksaw.

Or, as Splittime said, find a local shop. A word of advise- instead of coat hangers, use cut up garden hose. It is damn near identical in size and somewhat similar in bending characteristic to braided SS hose. You can purchase it cheaply by the foot from home improvement stores.

As an aside- anybody have a recommendation on an oil thermostat that actually works?

This thread is great.I will be doing my oil cooler soon and this info helps alot.

What are the drawbacks of -8 lines versus -10,I'm undecided on which size to go.

The external tstats are supposed to work great. They're built like a coolant thermostat (not the funky coil flap in the plate). My real concern regarding the sandwich plates with the tstat is flow. I can't imagine it doesn't impede flow. Would make more sense to have the tstat externally, but that's more connections, and hunting for a mounting point.

IMO the bigger hose is better for higher loads like a turbo engine endures. Just need to avoid using any of the tight solid bends to make it all worthwhile.

I will probably be installing an external thermostat to try and address the previously mentioned temperature problem, but...

When I first did my oil cooler install, I used -8AN hardware and had a pair of machined 90 degree elbows in the system. Some combination of the two caused a signifigant drop in oil pressure on the order of perhaps 10-15 PSI hot. I re-did everything with -10 hardware, removed the machined 90s, and also "ported" the sandwich plate, and pressure returned to stock levels. I thus conclude that the thermostat sandwich plate does not, by itself, cause a signifigant restriction to oil flow.

That's right- I forgot about the "rework".
Is your issue that it takes too long for the oil to warm up?

Mine seems to work fine- cold lines and right about the time the gauge passes 180f the lines get hot. My problem is that I still have elevated oil temps (IMO). After successive boosted runs I see 275f oil temps, which I'd expect w/o a cooler. Normal driving shows 240f.

Does an oil-only turbo elevate oil temps this much? It doesn't seem possible given the small amount of oil traveling through the turbo. What about higher oil pressures- do the reduce the effectiveness of the oil cooler? Or restrictions in the oil cooler circuit?

My bottle neck is the sandwich plate since it has 3/8" npt bungs that step up to the -10 lines immediately. Plan is to get an adapter that has 1/2" bungs... but if you're having issues with the tstat... - rob

Joe, is that during hard track use? I've seen as high as 240 on the highway in dirty air (behind trucks and such) in 100+ degree heat, and 260-270 on the track. I wouldn't have a problem using a big cooler and having the oil hover right at the thermostat opening point. I've seen other guys use decent sized coolers and only see a 15-20 degree drop; I need a 50-70 degree drop.

Anyone have some decent reading for me regarding the useable operating temps of synthetic oil? I've always heard that 260+ is too high.

I used to race with a guy that ran two v8 firebirds for 3 hour races on mobil1 at 300f oil temps. In the three years we ran the series with them they NEVER had an engine failure. They did bring 6 rears to each race though. :gay:

To answer a couple of posts at once-

I installed the oil cooler in preperation for the turbocharging as I feared that the Mitsu turbo would add signifigant heat load to the oil system, and I was also uncomfortable subjecting a journal-bearing turbo to extremely low oil pressures (as low as 10 PSI at idle when very hot, if the factory gauge is to be believed). To recap, I'm using the sandwich plate that FM sells (a Mocal part) and a tiny little Earl's cooler.

During my daily commute (about 5 miles) the oil has just about gotten up to 130-140 when I reach my destination. This is too damn cold.

On the highway, with clean air and plenty of it, the oil temperature tends to stabilize around 160-170. Also too damn cold.

Autocross runs are too short to see any real change, and I've never been to a proper trackday, but if I take the vehicle on a nice hard run, such as up the side of Palomar mountain or through the canyons under boost, the oil will peak out at maybe 200-220 degrees.

I have definately err'd on the side of far too much cooling- I suspect that the thermostat is not doing its job.

All oil temp measurements taken on an autometer short-sweep electrical gauge, sender installed in drain plug.

Joe, have you ever noticed the guys who drive semis and dumptrucks tape up part of their grills in the winter to reduce airflow? How about trying the same thing: run a few strips of duct tape across the face of your oil cooler core, limiting it's through air flow. You could then rip off the tape when/if you're going to track the car or otherwise drive the snot out of it.

I don't have an oil temp gauge in my car, but from watching the pressure gauge and interpolting temp from pressure, I would say that my oil is at temp after about 2 miles of driving. That is when the pressure gauge reaches its lowest idle and cruise positions no matter how much longer I drive.

Ben

I won't see my electric gauge come off the 140° stop for another 3-5 minutes beyond the idle settling in at its normal range of 25-27psi.

hmm i so want a oil cooler i was gonna run mine on my drain line, seemed like a good idea no?

Uh, no.

Er, not unless you also have a scavenge pump, I would imagine.Nope. My oil pressure usually reaches "normal" levels after about the same period of time (no more than 60PSI at cruise, down to 30 or so at idle) however at this point the oil temperature gauge has just begun to lift off the peg, which would put it around 100 degrees or so.

I do like the idea of sticking some racer's tape on the cooler for around-town use. Kicking myself for not having thought of that.

I'm also wondering if instead of my current arrangement with the thermostat plate, the external cooler, etc., if I might be better off installing a factory style oil-to-water heat exchanger. Like the sort found on later-model Miatas, Honda B18C series engines, etc. This would seem an ideal solution, since the water would actually help to pre-heat the oil when the engine is coming up to temperature, and once at operating temperature, the water will never cool the oil below 190 or so.

So do I actually need a cooler at 260°F, or will fresh synthetic handle this?

What is the sandwich plate size/thread for a 95 1.8?
 

I'm trying to go cheaper on the sandwich plate than buying the FM t-stat sandwich plate. My car is race only and does not need the t-stat. Does anyone know the size and thread of a 95/1.8 oil filter so I can get a basic plate. Not sure what size to buy. I think it is M18 with a 1.5 thread.

20 x 1.5mm thread, 2.5" (appx) O-ring.

Thanks Joe.

Savington, I believe I have an unused Mocal sandwich plate adapter with built in t-stat. I will sell it to you for the new price less $15, no shipping no tax. ;)

I used a small Setrab cooler, and I just used blue 10-AN push-on Aeroquip rubber hose (i.e. no SS braid, no clamps). 6 years later, no probs at all.

Jason, you've got a deal. I'm out of town every week until August, but hopefully we can meet up sometime to exchange goods, and compare suspension setups as well.

High-temp rubber scares the shit out of me in that application, though. You really have had no problems? What do your oil temps look like on-track?

Hey guys!

I suppose a -6AN fitting would really be pushing it?
Thing is, I've got a MOCAL with 6AN fitting and hoses with connectors to go as well. Somehow I dun really quite think it's a good idea to use such small fittings.
Should I use an adaptor at the head of the oil cooler? or just machine an adapter?

BTW.....anyone can point me to a place where i can get an oil cooler sandwich (or take-off) plate, who is willing to ship to Singapore and willing to take Paypal?

Yes synthetic can handle that, but adding oil cooler to drop temps would be optimal IMO. That will lower the oil temp at the turbo bearing for one thing and improve the margin if something does raise the temps while on track. I'd run a cooler in your case.

On the track it gets to around 250°F. My probe is in the oil pan though. If your oil temp sender is in the turbo supply line near the turbo, the oil probably cools down a bit before reaching the sender.

FWIW the BMW 335i goes into limp mode at 300*F+ oil temps.

The high temp rubber seems fine, I inspect it once in a while. It's supposedly made for it.

I'd think I'd see more heat in that line, just because it's oil that's just been run through the block, versus oil that's been mixed in with oil from the pan for a few moments.

Staying on the oil cooler subject...

A question about a reference or two I have heard about later model miatas with oil coolers. What is this? I remember hearing this before and nobody really going into depth on the subject.

So did later model miatas come stock with oil coolers? Anyone know which years? And if the car came with one, anyone know how effective these factory coolers were? Easy to upgrade?

My '99 doesn't have one.

'97 came stock with them... it's an oil to water cooler sandwiched between the block and filter. Not the best thing in the world... but it can't hurt.

Ohh my '99 does have the sandwich at the filter. I don't consider that to be an oil cooler. I was thinking more like what we usually add-on to our cars with a heat exchanger. Big 1/2AN fittings and a sandwich plate of some sort with no where to put the oil cooler itself.

Don't get worked up about it. It's really nothing. The 1.8 block has a pickup and dump for coolant that goes around the oil filter pickup tube. The coolant provides minimal heat to the oil when cold (water heats faster than oil), and minimal cooling while driving.

A lot of people who do coolant re-routes or 1.6-->1.8 conversions ignore this feature. It's not really essential.

If i was going to bypass the coolant to my TB I would do this for the filter sandwich at the same time just to eliminate more crap.

I wonder how well an external an external oil cooling system would work with the OE cooler, a pump and exchanger...?

Bumping this thread. Where's the best location for an oil cooler? I'm thinking between the IC and radiator, maybe off to one side, but I'm wondering if that's just going to further hinder airflow to the radiator.

I have been doing some research trying to determine what to use when adding an oil cooler to my SC'd track car.

I have come to the conclusion that using a 2nd gen RX7 oil cooler is the way I want to go. The RX7 oil cooler has a thermostat built into the cooler itself.

I found this site that provided information about the RX7 oil cooler: http://www.negative-camber.org/crisp...c/fcpart28.htm

I like that both lines attach to the cooler on one side. No need to run any more line than necessary.

I plan on using a cheap sandwich plate and some -08 lines and fittings. I picked up an oil cooler for $30, so hopefully I can put this all together for under $150.

Am I missing anything?

Don't put the OC between any other exchangers as it will create some major heat transfer. Size has a lot to do with placement. IMO, find a spot it will fit and see what it does for the temps- that's what I'm doing. I found the small trucool wasn't enough for a turbo'd 2.0 in a MIata. I've moved to a mercedes diesel cooler 4x20x2.5 (not quite as big as the 2nd gen rx7). I'll stick it in front of the steering rack first and see what temps do. If I need more cooling, I'll run the vent holes in the OE spoiler to it. I think my biggest issue now is the Hayden sandwich plate with built-in tstat. I'm getting a mocal to install in the current setup to see if there's a noticeable difference.

hmm i have been thinking about putting a 1/2 inch by 6 inch by 10 inch oil cooler on the shelf under my drivers side wiper my measurements say that it would clear any movement there and it would certianly have good airflow etc, and cool the oil just before the turbo.

That could actually be a good idea.

Never thought about that.

Will have to take some measurements and think about it.

sticking a hot oil cooler in there might be nice for the winter (providing it NEVER leaks) but not so nice in the summer - that's where the ac/heat pulls it's air from

What's wrong with the ac/heater pulling air from there? That means the cooler should have a continously fresh supply of air rushing in to replace the air that the ac draws into the cabin. :dunno:

Oh wait, you're talking about the performance of the ac/heater systems now. OK then that would be a drawback for that location.