Oil and water lines
 

I've been doing research on these for a while and I've still got a few questions.

1. Inline restrictors? I assume ATP has them? .060" is the size I've heard for the T25.
2. Distribution block? Is it necessary? Can I just run the lines directly to the turbo from the thermostat and the oil plug in the side of the block?
3. What's everyone used for water lines? I know the oil line setup is -4AN feed, -10AN drain, braided SS w/ teflon cores. Can I just use standard high-temp heater hose with heat shields/sleeves, or should I man up and use braided SS for all 4 lines? What size am I looking for for the water lines? Different sizes for feed and drain, or is the same size fine?
4. As far as hooking up to the water lines, I just use tees, right?

1. Make sure your T25 needs a restrictor before you use one. Is it BB or sleeve bearing?
2. Distribution blocks are only "necessary" if you want to clean up the look of the routing of the lines.
3. Yes, just use standard, high-temp heater hose with sleeves. Just use whatever size diameter will fit the water pump inlet/outlet that you're taping into.
4. I'm not sure what you mean...there's a place just underneath and to the right of the water pump pulley where you "tap" into the coolant system. At least that's the way it's been done for the last 100 years on turbo'd Miatas (unless you're doing a coolant re-route or some other such funkiness). If you search, you'll find a picture that has been posted/referenced several times with arrows pointing to the outlets.

I found Braineack's photo. It was confusing the first time. I see what you do now. You drop the entire line to turbo to line system in place of that one small hose. What size hose has everyone used for that setup? Should I be worried about starving the turbo of coolant with too small a hose?

The T25 is a sleeve bearing, I'm pretty sure. It's definitely not a BB.

It's been too long since I installed the turbo...just bring a sample of the hose to your auto parts store.

If the T25 is a sleeve bearing turbo, I sure as hell wouldn't be running a restrictor on it unless specified by the manufacturer (or I was getting a lot of smoke). I was under the impression only the newer, ball-bearing cartridge Garretts were requiring restrictors.

Some people will run a restrictor just because their turbo smokes.
I'm pretty sure the coolant hose is 5/16 though it could be 3/8.

The coolant lines are 5/16", and you use the barbs from the t-stat housing to access the water. I would recommend using something very high temp for all the lines around the turbo, if you just use heater hose with barb fittings on the turbo, it will fail before too long. I suggest using the oil restrictor, because of the oil pressure our cars produce.
-Michael-

I don't understand why people are just suggesting using restrictors for all turbos, sleeve or BB, across the board.

I have a sleeve bearing turbo that runs a -4AN line (.25"), no smoking. But I'm not running around say no turbo requires a restrictor.

I think the original poster (as well as the OP in the other thread currently asking about oil feed lines) needs to do more research on their specific turbo before jumping to conclusions.

Did you even read my post? I've done the research. No restrictor required for a -3AN line, but good luck finding a M10x1.25 to -3AN line. -4 is a lot more common, but it needs a restrictor. Some use .125, some use .060. Most of the posts I've seen say that sleeve bearing T25s like a .060 restrictor.

http://www.summitracing.com
36" -3AN SS Line (EAR-63011736) $22
-3AN to 7/16-24 Inverted Flare Union Adapter (EAR-591932) $13

http://www.paragonperformance.com/ADPTRS7.html
m10 x 1.50 to -3AN Adapater Fitting (PP-2966) $17

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$52 plus shipping for oil supply

Well there you go. Thanks, Braineack.

anplumbing.com

591932 -3 AN 7/16-24 I.F. Steel Brake Adapter 2 per pkg for 10.99
or 1 for half that price. Just enter .5 in the item value box when ordering.

Just another option, wouldn't be worth paying the extra $9 shipping just for that part. I can't seem to find a M10x1.5 to -3AN fitting on their site though, might be worth a call.

Bump to the top. Three questions:

1. Do I need a 36" oil feed? I'm going to tap into the galley plug next to the dipstick on my motor (early 1.8) so I'm thinking 3 feet may be overkill.

2. How long do I need for the drain line? -10AN, 18" or 20"?

3. For the coolant lines, my idea is to run standard 5/16" heater hose, but wrap it in some Thermotec sleeving and use the hose clamps to keep the sleeving in place. Should be a little less pricey than stainless steel and do just as good a job at keeping the rubber in decent condition.

You won't need 36" for the oil feed. Use a piece of string and measure out the path you want the line to go or use a rag tape out of your moms sowing kit.

Buy two feet of drain line and cut it down to what you need, it comes in foot lengths anyway. My HKS line is now 18" i believe, the BEGI mani should be less than that I would think.

The thermotec idea sounds good to me. anplumbing does sell 1 ft lengths of stainless tubing for $5 i think if you wanted to get into that though.

Cjernigan, know of a good place to get a cheap -3AN feed line that's like 18-24" long?

No wonder I can never find this thread when I do a title search... I spelled restrictor wrong (MODS PLEASE FIX SPELLING IN THIS THREAD'S TITLE!):
https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6116
That was my solution and a good discussion.

As for the feed line, how are you going to route it?
Mine currently comes out of the block w/a 90* fitting pointing forward and routes in front of the DP (under the turbine) and then up the fender side coming into the turbo from the side w/a 90* fitting at the CHRA.
https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/at...9&d=1178248417
The other ways are:
Straight up the dipstick and over the top.
Up the dipstick, back across the firewall, loop through the brake reservoir hardline and in from the fender side.
Check out the two engine pics in my vbGarage for the more common routing:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/vb...o=view&id=1012

Don't forget, -Xan braided lines don't bend very well. The way I have it now is as tight a bend as I'd recommend anybody go.

Drain hose is super cheap... I think I used about 8" total, but my drain flange is pretty long.

You should make friends with your local hydraulic supply store. Just look in the yellow pages under "hose, hydraulic, rubber".
In fact, HERE IS A SHOP YOU NEED TO GO VISIT: http://www.rbisj.com/

Sam, I'm going to go with a -10AN stainless line for the oil drain. I don't trust rubber hoses with oil that may get up to 250, 260 degrees. You only used 8" of line? I've commonly heard the 18-20" figure thrown around. What gives?

I haven't decided exactly how to run the oil line yet; hopefully my manifold and downpipe arrive on Friday so I can get them installed and measure and plan the exact routings. Then I can get all the fittings and crap ordered on Monday.

Savington, braided stainless lines still are rubber on the inside...they're just wrapped in braided steel for some external heat resistance. They're not going to withstand internal temps any higher than high-temp synthetic rubber/silicon...~300°F.

FWIW I used 18" of 10AN for my return line with the HKS, which sits the turbo up higher then samnavy's. If your short, you can always extend the return out of the turbo with a piece of CU or blk pipe.

I thought the nice ones were teflon on the inside. :confused:

Teflon's not going to be any better than rubber in that regard, right?

Why don't you find some braided stainless on some site that list material specs. Actually, I just looked at some on Summit's page and they show a max temp of 300°F, same as high-temp, synthetic rubber. I guess the braided might look a little nicer, so do what you want, I was just trying to let you know you shouldn't expect braided stainless to have a higher temp threshold than any other good oil drain hose.

Maybe McMaster has some higher-temp stuff?

Unless you're into bling, I can't see a worthwhile advantage to braided vs. non for the return line. You can't see it in my picture, but I have a stock DSM return hardline. It's a pipe that's flanged on both ends (one end on the turbo and the other flange bolts to the pan) but I've cut off the pan flange and just stuck the 5/8" hose on there. That gets my hose far enough away from the CHRA that I'm not worried about heat.

I also have the Begi manifold which puts the turbo fairly low, and I don't have AC or PS, so it's about a 8" straight shot right into the pan.

Meh. I just looked at the prices for -10AN. $45 for the hose vs. $16 for two feet of high-temp silicone from Kelly at ATP. I think I can live without.

Stainless feed line, -3AN, no restrictor, 24" long
5/8" high-temp silicone return hose, buy 2 feet and cut it down
5/16 or 3/8" water lines

Savington: Though a little more expensive than heater hose, another option would be 5/16" fuel injection hose for your turbo coolant lines. Not sure what kind of coolant fittings you have, but my RHB5 has 1/4"NPT to 5/16" barb fittings with the fuel injection hose routed to the nipple on the bottom of the thermostat and down between the water pump pulley and PS pulley (as per installation instructions for the kit).

It's a bit cruder and lower cost than AN fittings and lines for coolant but gets the job done with no leaks.

What benefits are there to fuel injector hose vs. heater hose? More pressure? I'm going to wrap the water lines in thermo-sleeves so I'm not terribly worried about radiant heat from the turbo.

As far as I know most hose designed for use on an engine can take quite a bit of heat. How hot does the outlet water temp off the turbo get? I used regular 5/16"" fuel line for my water lines for over a year and the hose went back in my box of parts because it's still good. =) I now have stainless braided hose with AN's at the turbo with clamps at the t-stat lines but I would like to find a better solution there because braided line is hard to clamp. Maybe a compression to AN type fitting? Or maybe drill/tap the t-stat housing for AN fittings? That actually sounds like a good idea there... I'll get back on that. I need to figure out where the oil cooler line can dump back in since one of the t-stat lines is a T I believe.

Bump with one last question. I've got the oil temp gauge sender in my drainplug right now, but I don't think it's very accurate. It starts off at 145 every day, drops to 140, and it really doesn't come up for quite a while. I think I need to get it more into the oil flow to get an accurate reading. I was thinking of using a -3AN to 1/8NPT female tee fitting in the oil feed line to house the oil temp sender. Anything wrong with that?

Using this part:

http://www.paragonperformance.com/ADPTRS4.html part number PP-2881

Long as you did it at the block and not at the turbo i think it would be alright.
Seems you would get more accurate readings with larger variations in temperature versus the slow reaction you're getting in the oil pan.

SAVINGTON, LISTEN TO ME!!!
Go pay a visit to this shop: http://www.rbisj.com/
Print out some good resolution pics of your engine bay and just show them what you're trying to engineer. They'll point you in the right direction and probably have a better idea for how to go about routing shit and they'll know for sure exactly what temps/pressures certain hose is good for and what's best for what you're trying to do.

You wouldn't believe the crazy shit I came up with to try and make things work. One visit to Hampton Rubber Supply saved me HOURS of work... susequent trips for other small projects saved me even more time and pain. The guys at HRS know my face now and always want to know how the car is.

Check out this link if the first one isn't close enough to you.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&um...e-results&cd=1

I live 15 minutes from Royal Brass. I'm getting my water lines and fittings from them, and I'm going to copy your setup for the oil feed line and use Braineack's setup for the oil return line.

I posted the line setup in my build thread. If you think I can get a better price at Royal Brass vs. Summit, ATP, and Paragon Performance, let me know.

For future archive use:

Oil feed line:
(note: if you don't want to run a oil temp gauge, replace the double-female 90 with a male-female 90 and ditch the tee fitting.)

1 M10x1.50 male to -3AN male fitting, ParagonPerformance.com, $17.50
1 90° -3AN female to -3AN female fitting, ANPlumbing.com, $12.25
1 -3AN male/-3AN male/1/8"NPT female tee fitting (for use with oil temperature sensor), ParagonPerformance.com, $14.63
1 24" Stainless Steel oil feed line, -3AN, double female fittings, Summit Racing, $12.88
1. 90° -3AN male to -3AN female fitting
1 -3AN male to 7/16-24 inverted flare male fitting (it's a 7/16s on a T25, it may vary on your turbo)

$77.81 before tax/shipping without the tee for the oil temp sender, $87.47 with the tee fitting for the oil temp sender. If you can do it cheaper, let me know by all means.

Return line is a turbo drain-sized fitting to a 5/8" barb, high-temp silicone hose (buy 24" and cut it down, according to Braineack), and then a 5/8" barb to 1/2"NPT in the oil pan. Drill the oil pan with a 23/32" bit.

Water lines are standard 5/16" heater hose, sleeved with heat-resistant thermal sleeving available from Summit Racing.