Piecing together a turbo kit, any input?
 

Okay so I've been reding a lot about turbos for the last few months on this site, some great build threads (degreddified sunburst was extremely informative) and I've decided I want to piece together a nice little turbo system. I had a coldside sc 96 that ended up making 250+whp and it was fun but the intense dropoff at the top end left me wanting so much more. Right now I'm on a stock 94 engine with 250k miles and its really strong, oil changes every 3k, preventative maintence, etc. I'm on a tight budget and would like to do it as quick as possible (anxious to get boosted) but I'm willing to wait a little longer to get funds together and do it right. I'm trying to find a good mani/dp for cheap but the best I can find is thre begi mani for 400 and dp 305 :( id rather not spend that much but I with they had the cast mani for the 1.8 on ebay like they do the 1.6. Im looking to make 225-250whp for now with the possibility of easily bumping up to around 275-300 with some engine work in the future. I've been looking at these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GODSPEED-T3T...4b73a7&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GSP-UNIVERSA...12a19e&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GODSPEED-GSP...6714b2&vxp=mtr

Any info on reliablility, hp posibilities, spool time, if anyone is running any of these, etc. I know dustinb was running a similar turbo but the link he had doesn't work anymore. Thanks guys!

Also this is going to be a dd only, might take it to the autocross every now and then, and maybe learn to drift but only a dd until I get some more free time

If you are putting one together on a budget it is best to just shop around the parts section here and slowly piece together a quality setup.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1362890499

My advice: Buy low & sell high.

Thats the plan amd ill look on cr.net and m.net. It seems like I search on a subject for a few days and when I cant find exactly what im looking for a start a thread and then not 5 minutes later I find a thread with almost exactly all the info I need
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...h-build-63204/

Good read, would read again.

Godpseed kits are the shit, i hear they no hit the block. With your plan you might be better off going with an electric supercharger though.

They "no hit the block?" What is this supposed to mean? I also read about complications with the churbo's dp flange. Does this apply to the godspeed or do they match up with garretts dp flange?

They are garbage that rarely fits right and worse yet crack soon after installation. There is a reason why begi and FM charge 300 bucks per manifold and 200something for downpipes.

Read the stickies man thats why they are there. Theres tons of information at your finger tips.

Sorry, I re-read my original post and the way I worded it made it sound like I was thinking of getting an ebay mani so just to clarify I am NOT even considering getting an ebay mani unless of course they made a cast one for the 1.8, like I mentioned earlier. When I said I was thinking godspeed I meant for the turbo itself, sorry I should have clarified, but I edited my first post. Anyways, I was asking for input on the godspeed turbos, I have read mostly good things about them on here. As for the mani/dp I'll lurk these forums for a while to see if I can find something I like, if not I'll probably just go with the begi mani/dp. I've read a lot about the A/R numbers and turbo specs but its still kind of blurry to me (guess im a little slow lol) even though I'm usually pretty good with math and numbers. I saw a link to a stealth site that was supposed to clarify what all those numbers mean but it didnt help a bunch, I'm going to end up buying Corky Bells Maximum Boost and read that a few times, hopefully it will clarify some things for me

I would run a chinacharger any day of the week because I'm a cheap ass, but at the same time, with the plethora of good, used OEM turbos available that don't use the old T3 flange, it seems like a waste of time.

SR20 turbos are popular and plentiful. Myself and a few others have used WRX TD04s with great success. When I can buy a 20k mile OEM turbo for <$125, seems like a good way to go.

There are more turbo builds on this site than you can shake a stick at, read other peoples builds and choose your path.

Okay, so I found a local miata guy. He has an 03 nb and a turbo kit for it but he opted not to go turbo so hes selling it. Here's what it includes
Begi S4 mani/ no dp
Godspeed T25 (SR20) turbo
FMIC and piping
HKS bov
oil lines and tap
FM Voodoo box
I'm just assuming that the mani will fit my '94 since they both have a 1.8, but please correct me if im wrong

hmm if ure sure its an s4 mani theres a dp being sold on the classifieds that should fit.

I haven't looked at it yet, going to check it out friday or saturday but ill definitely make sure its a begi before i shell out the money. I've never seen either in person but im sure it will be obvious whether or not its a quality piece of a thin piece of sheet metal lol. A question I've always wanted to know is, why do I always see mani/dp sold as sets. Do they have to match and why is that?

Expect not to use the voodoo box... I'm guessing u're planning on doing it properly and not using 12411376 piggybacks to make it....run less shitty.

You can call Stephanie from begi and ask for sizes of the tubes, and other marks you can look at to ensure you're getting an S4 manifold and not the ebay ones.

I was actually going to use it and start off with low 5-6 psi and turn up to 8-9 maybe a little later and eventually go to MS, but im blowing a good portion of my money on the kit right now (poor 19 yr old here) lol me and my dad had a BRP coldside kit with ELF piggyback and that was it and it ended up making 250+ at its best but we turned it down for autox and better street driveability. I believe there was also a chip soldered into the stock ecu that changed the redline but idk if it did anything other than that

Chip, u mean a crystal? Crystal leans out the afrs further so thats that.

I'm not exactly sure what it was, the guy who owned it before put it in. If running 5-7psi, would I need anything for fuel other than the voodoo. What about timing?

Make sure you get a receipt from him from BEGI for the s4 manifold. Honestly you should spend the money on a MS now, learn to tune it, then go turbo after you know how to tune. Doing it the other way will cause more long term headaches.

That was my original plan but I got a really good deal on this stuff so I can't pass it up. And if it's really a BEGI mani then there is no way I could pass it up

Yes a garbage big enough to fit that and ur motor in after you melt the pistons. Get a real ecu and move on.

Hmm, I was running 12psi on my sc 96 with ELF piggyback for 30k+ miles and no melted pistons..

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1363976794
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1363976794
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1363976794
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1363976794

What is this stupid piece of s*** metal canister right here in the way of my intercooler? I've never seen this on another miata, can I get rid of it?
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1363976794
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1363976794
Maybe this should be turned into a build thread but I'm guessing the mods are the ones who have to move it

The canister looks like the AC canister. My guess is you'll also find a thin 1/2" "radiator" in front of the regular radiator. What manifold is that?

Yes that's exactly it. I was wondering what that was if there was an oil cooler or what? It's completely in my way of intercooler mounting and the mani is s4 begi. The guy showed me his emails between him and begi including where they didnt ship him the downpipe he ordered for over a year, where he then cancelled his order and waited another year for a refund

Anyways what can I do about this canister? Its completely in my way for the intercooler. Ive pushed the lines and cannister to the left as much as I can and its still in the way

Become a man and remove your a/c.

On mine i had to bend it to the side however my intercooler had enough room. If ur intercooler is too long youre SOL. That said i ended up taring one of the lines and will be removing the ac and the power steering when the weather allows.

After a couple hours of beginning to take on this project with my novice skill level i've realized that 1. I'm going to need to read a LOT more build threads and 2. This manifold is very obviously not going to work with the a/c

Oh and these stock fans are completely in the way as well

Run the pipes through the fenders? I think 18psi and few others are running it this way.

Oh that's a good idea. A lot of the threads pictures dont work. Would I basically drill a large hole it the wheel well in the engine bay or directly behind the headlight like 18psi (although slightly different since mines an NA) and route it like that? I guess that would work but not with these pipes I got. Ill have to get more. Would you recommend heat shielding the a/c compressor (and lines?) Do all miatas with a/c have the canister and thin radiator in front of the regular radiator?Would this affect flow to the radiator even worse with the intercooler rather than not having a/c? Sorry for the super noob questions, this is my first experience with a turbo ever

Yes all miata's with a/c have dryer's (Canister) and condenser's (small radiator's). In fact all a/c systems in general have these components and they are usually located in locations similar to the miata.

I hope the seller showed you a receipt or proof that what you bought is indeed a genuine s4 and not the ebay knockoff.

Seriously.

He showed me emails regarding the transaction with them, yes. I asked about it to make sure or I wouldnt have bought it

you should have just asked begi what gauge the pipes are and measured them. Thats the only true way to know as how do u know he isnt selling a knock off and running the begi manifold or whatever. Anyways i cannot give any info on the fender intercooler setup as i've never dug into that area. Mine is an over the rad setup and would do it again because of how neat and solid it came out.

Hes not running turbo hes runnimg hi comp pistons and going with itbs. Ill measure the piping and ask begi but I saw the emails so I assume its legit. If not I can get my money back I didnt pay the full amoumt yet just a down payment and he let me hold onto some parts. And when I pay the rest he will give me the rest of the parts like voodoo box, bipes, turbo, oil lines and fittings, etc.

i'd msg begi ask for what size pipe they use and measure it. It wont hurt anything to confirm.

Okay so I want to run megasquirt obviously but at this point i dont feel that i need the best system as my goals are very moderate (180-225whp) for the time being with the possibility of upping it to the stock internals' limits. I am wondering if the MS1 will be sufficient for my needs. Obviously the MS2 or MS# would be better, but I'm on a really tight budget and the MS! was sufficient at one time for this so I'm wondering if you guys would reccomend the MS1 as a standalone to run my car. I'm looking for the basic fuel and timing control, as well as ease of tuning for a noob like me (i've never tuned an ecu before and have absolutely no knowledge about doing so) and possibly knock sensing. I was thinking of running MBC, but if this computer has EBC I might go ahead and do that after I get the feel for what I'm doing, but I feel like the MS1 would be a much better potion than running the Voodoo box with Bipes or MSD. So, would you guys reccomend this system MegaSquirt-I Programmable EFI System PCB3.0 - Kit w/ BLACK CASE DIYAutoTune.com to be run as a standalone or would you reccomend against doing so. Like I said, the MS2 is out of my budget for the time being, but from what I've read the MS1 can be upgraded to MS2 if I wanted to. My good friend builds motherboards for electric scooters as well as for his own use in gardening and hydroponic systems and such, so he has agreed to assemble the unit if I decide to go that route, so I can save some money over the pnp unit. Any input from yall would be great, and the MS seems like the best option for power to tune my car as well s support from so many people on here that are running it over another system like Link, Hydra (which is obviously WAY out of my budget) etc. Thanks for any suggestions guys

With the price tag of MS2, theres no point to go MS1

Its more about drivability rather than extras.

I figured this would be the answer I got but from where i'm looking the ms2 is twice the price and if the ms1 would work for my goals why not? What are some negatives about the ms1? Id rather go with that but if you can give me some good reasons why I should go with ms2 over ms1 other than its newer and better (specifics) then maybe ill save up an extra week and get the ms2

MegaSquirt-II Programmable EFI System PCB3.0 - Kit w/ BLACK CASE DIYAutoTune.com

The MS2 is $70 more. Not 'twice the price'.

Oh damn I saw this one for $425 DIYPNP Nippon Denso 76pin Unassembled Kit DIYAutoTune.com

Whats the difference here?

That's a DIYPNP you linked to. The first one you linked to was the regular MS1, not an MS1-based DIYPNP.

The DIYPNP is MS2 based though. You assemble it and plug it in, and you are good to go. With the MS1 or MS2 kits that you and I linked first, I assume you will need to figure out how to wire it into you harness yourself.

But you might want to ask Braineack or Joe Perez or someone else who actually knows and isn't just guessing.

Thats what I was guessing since the only difference in the 2 ms2 systems that we linked were one was says its the 76 pin connector and the other i'm guessing you have to splice onto the factory wiring harness. I cant imagine that would be the only thing that makes a $200+ difference

stop being so n00b.

:brain:

I read a thread a month or 2 ago that compared the godspeed/ebay exhaust flange with the garrett exhaust flange. They looked very similar but were completely different, and someone had put up the exact specs of the garrett flange. I can't seem to find that thread now, and when I images.google searched garrett 5 bolt exhaust flange, i was getting mixed results showing 2 different types of 5 bolt exhaust flanges. Can anyone find this thread comparing the 2? I've searched and searched and can't find it. Or if someone could tell me right off hand whether this is the garrett flange or the "godspeed" flange that doesnt match anything but this specific turbo..
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1365468437

I compared em way long ago. Don't think I have the picture any longer. Its REALLY close, and no way you'd tell from just a pic of the back of the turbo which of them it is.

Whoever drilled that turbo in the above post must have been really drunk though

I know right! That's so disappointing, but comparing the real flange and the godspeed one looks like they might be inverted. As if the 2 holes in the top right in my picture would be on the bottom right on the other one. I'm assuming mine is that "fake" flange needing a custom downpipe which sucks because I was planning on getting a stock sr20det elbow and making a pipe from there to the cat or do a cat delete

So if these don't work, would I be able to switch out the turbine housing with a Garrett or something? I know a little about turbo's and everything, but this little details that you learn with experience are new to me. Also, this thing looks way too tiny to be a .86 AR, i can't imagine it being any smaller.

EDIT: I'm trying to teach myself as I go along. I still have a few more parts to get before I can begin the install. Right now I'm trying to measure the turbine A/R, because from what I've read, things are never consistent in the land of china. From what I understand it's the area of the exhaust inlet divided by the radius from the center of the turbine wheel to the center of the exhaust inlet. If i'm correct in measuring this, and if it is measured in mm, im getting area: 50mm x 38mm=1900 / Radius: 50mm = 38mm Does that mean it's A/R 38? What am I doing wrong here?

This is a Garrett housing on ebay for $223
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1365479793
This is a garrett housing that I found, among many, on google images
http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/...ps99a2bad3.jpg
Compared to my china housing
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1365479793

Im so confused about this, and I don't want to order the wrong flange to get my downpipe made. Am I just going to have to trial and error this?

To me it looks like they use a jig, first they drill out the bolt by ur thumb and tap it, put a bolt there and tighten it to hold the jig and then drill away however they didnt tightened it well enough and it moved as to why all the others are turned around it in a clockwise motion (the same way the drill turns).

Long story short, the flange should still fit.

I don't even know where I would get a flange for this. I found this
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1365483458
This was on the old thread comparing the standard 5 bolt with godspeed 5 bolt, that I remember. When I starting measuring I was already getting numbers that were off. It's late right now so I didn't get too far into it, as I have work in the morning, but I guess it gives me something to sleep on. Maybe I'll just sell this one and get a used garrett t25 for like $100. That way I wont have to worry about this bs

To me it looks like the standard flange garret turbos use but as i said the jig turned while they were drilling the 2nd hole. All the holes should still match up.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1365483977

Garrett Downpipe Flange Divorced Ports 2 25" and 1 5" 1 2" Thich CNC Machined | eBay

Garrett GT25 GT28R GT28RS T25 T28 Exit Flange to 2" Downpipe | eBay

Thanks. My buddy that I'm going to have build my downpipe says he orders his flanges from mandrel-bends.com

GT28 Turbo Outlet Flange, 5 Bolt, 1/2", Mild Steel Columbia River Mandrel Bending

And what's the deal with stainless vs. mild? Mild seems like a better all around material to go with besides heat and ugly, but i don't care if it's ugly as long as its functional and not broken.

I'd ask them for a blueprint of their cut. Theres 2 types of 5 bolt t28 flanges.

Someone was drunk the day they drilled your turbo, i suspect you'll never find a flange that will work without drilling your own holes.

I see this. I may order a flange just to see if it will fit, like triple88a said, it may fit, just be offset a lot. If it does fit, but it's offset I wonder if it would cause an exhaust leak. I read mixed opinions about using gaskets at the exhaust side of the turbo, so is it yes use a gasket, or no don't use a gasket. I figure in my case, IF I can find a flange that fits, I would have to use a gasket to avoid an exhaust leak