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https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...e-img_3549.jpg
Just speculation, I don't have one myself. Although I want one, with my FF960's at 60PSI I drop rail pressure like crazy. Probably why my deadtimes are such a bear to program, I have negative deadtime the longer the injectors stay open... |
Originally Posted by deezums
(Post 1603272)
Just speculation, I don't have one myself.
Originally Posted by deezums
(Post 1603272)
Although I want one, with my FF960's at 60PSI I drop rail pressure like crazy. Probably why my deadtimes are such a bear to program, I have negative deadtime the longer the injectors stay open...
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I've converted to return, with a spare feed line as my return instead of the evap line. I've got a DW300 and turbosmart FPR. All in, I should have enough for 400+ on e85 with a wide margin.
No idea why I have such problems. Even just testing one individual injector on a flowbench and I see the pressure drop. The flowbench doesn't give me but 3/6/12ms pulse choices. I've got something rigged up to let me test whatever pulsewidth I want. Might try using haltech to compensate deadtime off the entire pulsewidth and battery voltage both. |
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1603264)
I don't think any of the injector dimensions are a factor here. Also, you'll probably want to measure that injector from the sealing shoulder to the top, don't include the lower seal or the tip.
*pictures of measurements* This measurement isn't accurate with this tool as you are forced to tilt the injector over to get it on the caliper jaw. A better way to do it would be with a height gauge on a surface plate, but I have neither, and this is probably close enough for the sake of argument. The radius on the ID adapter however... It fully bottoms out in both my M-Tuned rail and the stock rail. The problem is I DON'T KNOW IF THIS ACTUALLY MATTERS. You would want to check the distance between the rail spacer where it contacts the head and the sealing "shoulder" on the injector, but again, same applies as above about the surface plate and height gauge. I simply don't have the tools to properly measure this distance. Forgot the stock injectors had a top cushion since I haven't touched any in ages. The ID1000's contact the radium rail at the top of the injectors before the tophat radius, so I was just assuming it was similar on the stock injectors. Contacting at the radius seems correct though considering it stabilizes the injector and is what contacts with the OEM rail. Looks like my injectors aren't special though... Same measurements on mine. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f39aabced8.jpg Not sure how this hasn't seemed to come up before but looks like at least part of the issue is the top of the rail's "injector seat" is offset further towards the head than the OEM rail and the ID1000's have a longer "radius/top cushion" to "top of injector" distance than OEM? (ID = 13mm) https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5c183551be.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...446714397a.jpg
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1603264)
@Jumpster74 When installed per Radium's instructions, does your rail bolt down square without the injectors?
After my last statement, I'd like to point out that it appears OP is not using a Miata valve cover. Making sure the rail cleared was the first thing I checked but installed it with no injectors to verify and it clears fine. Radium definitely fixed the issues with the M-Tuned. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5d24833659.jpg
Originally Posted by deezums
(Post 1603268)
Looks like you'd need additional rail spacers about the width of the lower injector cushion, at least according to E02K's pic there.
The actual measurement you want is cushion to cushion on the stock injectors, and then cushion to radius on the top adapters. If they aren't the same it's not going to work. All assuming you aren't crashing the rail ears into the valve cover. Seems Radium has fixed the oversight of Mtuned, the ears come pre-notched. Taking guesses here but sounds like the OEM rail + injector left some space above the injector. ID filled it in with the tophat and radium filled it in by offsetting the seat. If so, the best solution would be shorter tophats, but at this point, I think I might just take the loss, sell these, and pick up ID1050x's which appear to fit with no issues due to a different, shorter, tophat (need to verify with ID but visually appears to be the case from pics). |
Miata are 58mm seat to seat. If you measure 60mm, you need to put 2mm of spacer on top of the stock rail spacers.
See the blue anodized spacers in the flowforce image here. Think you might be able to buy those from them, if you'd like to run what you have. Fuel Injectors - Miata Turbo FAQ |
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The actual gap is ~5mm so I think it's a combo of a 2mm taller bottom seal and 3mm+ taller tophat. Pretty annoying but ill verify the ID1050x's have shorter tophats and probably get a set after that. Don't know if it's really an issue but would prefer if the injector tops didn't bottom out in the rail.
EDIT: Read the link. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you for knowing about those :bowrofl: Ordering 2 sets in case I need more spacing but that's too easy of a solution to not try. |
Originally Posted by deezums
(Post 1603276)
I've converted to return, with a spare feed line as my return instead of the evap line. I've got a DW300 and turbosmart FPR. All in, I should have enough for 400+ on e85 with a wide margin.
No idea why I have such problems. Even just testing one individual injector on a flowbench and I see the pressure drop. The flowbench doesn't give me but 3/6/12ms pulse choices. I've got something rigged up to let me test whatever pulsewidth I want. Might try using haltech to compensate deadtime off the entire pulsewidth and battery voltage both. |
Originally Posted by deezums
(Post 1603280)
See the blue anodized spacers in the flowforce image here. Think you might be able to buy those from them, if you'd like to run what you have. Fuel Injectors - Miata Turbo FAQ
Originally Posted by msmola2002
(Post 1603281)
Originally Posted by Jumpster74
(Post 1603283)
EDIT: Read the link. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you for knowing about those :bowrofl: Ordering 2 sets in case I need more spacing but that's too easy of a solution to not try.
WHATEVA! My solution works and doesn't leak, I guess I can advertise as "works without spacers" when I put it up for sale :giggle: Good detective work there errybody. :party: |
I must admit that I don't log fuel pressure in my 99 but... My flowforce 960's are the bee's knees. I run a base pressure of 60psi, even the stock ECU was happy. I run a boost/vacuum referenced fuelab regulator between the tank cover and the return line dead headed on a stock rail. Plenty of fuel to spare running mid 11's on e85.
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FlowForce has nice spacers too. Pretty sure Nigel and Andrew invented them.
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Figured I'd follow up as a thank you for all the help troubleshooting, but doubling up on the FlowForce spacers worked perfectly. The extra 5mm of spacers is all it needed.
Just bumped the fuel up to 60psi and the new fuel system is running like a top. Time to feed it corn. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5b2a6af3b6.jpg |
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