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-   -   In search of ALLOFIT numbers's with Precision 4828: FOR SCIENCE! (https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/search-allofit-numberss-precision-4828-science-80658/)

Chiburbian 08-28-2014 02:15 PM

In search of ALLOFIT numbers's with Precision 4828: FOR SCIENCE!
 
This is just something I am rolling around in my head. Nitrodann is talking about going full tilt external wastegate potato, and it's going to be interesting to see what kind of power it creates "ALLOFIT" as 18psi put it.

Well, I don't have the money to run the full potential of my Precision 4828 anytime soon but I am interested in seeing what it will do in comparison with a standard Disco-potato which is what I understand it is based on.

So, ideally I am interested in shipping my turbo to someone (again, ideally with a potato already) who can max it out to see if it has a heigher ceiling than a 2860 and how it responds throughout the powerband in comparison. For science.

Obviously I wouldn't go into this with someone I don't know on here through reputation, and we would have to have some sort of agreement that if the turbo is munched we split the cost of rebuild/replace (not necessarily 50/50) but I am sure we can work something equitable out. Also, ideally this would take place over the cooler months because i'd like to drive my car as late into the year as possible.

I know many here that are running high HP don't choose the 2860 so I understand if a direct comparison isn't possible but I am still open to considering options.

Maybe ideally we pick one person to dyno 2554, 2560, 2860, 2870, 2876?

Just thinking out loud at this point...

concealer404 08-28-2014 02:22 PM

What's the maps look like for both turbos?

I'd be interested in giving it a shot, but i can only compare against a 2554 right now. I'd need to get off my ass and upgrade my injectors first, but i do have the motor to handle all of it.

shuiend 08-28-2014 02:24 PM


Originally Posted by Chiburbian (Post 1162018)
This is just something I am rolling around in my head. Nitrodann is talking about going full tilt external wastegate potato, and it's going to be interesting to see what kind of power it creates "ALLOFIT" as 18psi put it.

Well, I don't have the money to run the full potential of my Precision 4828 anytime soon but I am interested in seeing what it will do in comparison with a standard Disco-potato which is what I understand it is based on.

So, ideally I am interested in shipping my turbo to someone (again, ideally with a potato already) who can max it out to see if it has a heigher ceiling than a 2860 and how it responds throughout the powerband in comparison. For science.

Obviously I wouldn't go into this with someone I don't know on here through reputation, and we would have to have some sort of agreement that if the turbo is munched we split the cost of rebuild/replace (not necessarily 50/50) but I am sure we can work something equitable out. Also, ideally this would take place over the cooler months because i'd like to drive my car as late into the year as possible.

I know many here that are running high HP don't choose the 2860 so I understand if a direct comparison isn't possible but I am still open to considering options.

Maybe ideally we pick one person to dyno 2554, 2560, 2860, 2870, 2876?

Just thinking out loud at this point...

I may in the future be interested in running it against my 2871, but it is something that would be 6+ months off.

Chiburbian 08-28-2014 02:25 PM

That's the problem. Precision doesn't publish compressor maps...

Where are you located Ben?

Also, Lars looks like a better comparison for now. 7 months might be doable. That places it in the middle of the winter. Car usually doesn't go back on the road until March sometime.

concealer404 08-28-2014 02:27 PM

I'm in Indy, so we could make an easy weekend out of it. I'd be 1-2 months out anyways. Have a few parts to throw at the car, and GRM $2014 is coming up quickly!

shuiend 08-28-2014 02:34 PM


Originally Posted by Chiburbian (Post 1162032)
That's the problem. Precision doesn't publish compressor maps...

Where are you located Ben?

Also, Lars looks like a better comparison for now. 7 months might be doable. That places it in the middle of the winter. Car usually doesn't go back on the road until March sometime.

I would also have to build a new manifold and downpipe to run that turbo since my 2871 is V-band. Not something I am opposed to doing, and I could try to copy my absurdflow manifold as best as possible. Does the precision have a t2 flange?

Chiburbian 08-28-2014 02:38 PM

Yeah, T2 flange. I'd really feel bad you doing all that work though.

Btw, I am not opposed to making the turbo a bit of a slut this winter. I can come to indy perhaps and help the swap.

thenuge26 08-28-2014 02:56 PM

Ben do you have a transmission to handle ALLOFIT lined up? I know you have the TII for the blue car but you'd have to get/fab an adapter plate for the red one. I (finally) ordered a TIG welder which should get here in the next week or so if there are downpipe differences.

Chiburbian 08-28-2014 03:04 PM

Opening this up for more ideas - would anyone be interested in volunteering a few more turbos to try? Obviously we would also need time to tune the EBC and dyno time unless we were just doing virtual dyno numbers, but with the amount of work going into this I'd think an actual dyno would give us the most usable information.

Do we need to do a fund-raiser?

Also, It appears that the turbine housing is the same between 2871 and 2860 so you (Lars) may be able to just run my turbo in your current housing. That would be far less work, if it works. Though, it wouldn't give us perfect numbers for internally wastegated but that's ok, comparisons are what I am looking for.

shuiend 08-28-2014 05:55 PM


Originally Posted by Chiburbian (Post 1162056)
Opening this up for more ideas - would anyone be interested in volunteering a few more turbos to try? Obviously we would also need time to tune the EBC and dyno time unless we were just doing virtual dyno numbers, but with the amount of work going into this I'd think an actual dyno would give us the most usable information.

Do we need to do a fund-raiser?

Also, It appears that the turbine housing is the same between 2871 and 2860 so you (Lars) may be able to just run my turbo in your current housing. That would be far less work, if it works. Though, it wouldn't give us perfect numbers for internally wastegated but that's ok, comparisons are what I am looking for.

You have the precision turbo not a 2860 correct? My 2871 housing is a Tial V-Band housing that is safety wired together. I have absolutely no desire to pull off the housing.

This whole thing also comes down to my built motor not randomly loosing oil pressure sometime shortly after getting it running. I don't have a good track record of that not happening over the past 4 years.

Chiburbian 08-28-2014 06:31 PM

Correct, but a Precision 4828 is supposedly a 2860 with a bunch of upgrades.

Btw, I contacted Keith at Flyin' Miata to see if they want a shot at it too.

Leafy 08-28-2014 06:55 PM


Originally Posted by thenuge26 (Post 1162052)
Ben do you have a transmission to handle ALLOFIT lined up? I know you have the TII for the blue car but you'd have to get/fab an adapter plate for the red one. I (finally) ordered a TIG welder which should get here in the next week or so if there are downpipe differences.

The 5 speed will take ALLOFIT in 4th gear on the dyno no sweat.

concealer404 08-29-2014 10:18 AM


Originally Posted by thenuge26 (Post 1162052)
Ben do you have a transmission to handle ALLOFIT lined up? I know you have the TII for the blue car but you'd have to get/fab an adapter plate for the red one. I (finally) ordered a TIG welder which should get here in the next week or so if there are downpipe differences.


I have a spare 5spd. :rofl:

But really, i probably need to move to a 6spd if i'm going to go ALLOFIT on this 2554 anyways. I bet the torque spike would eat this thing alive.

thenuge26 08-29-2014 11:21 AM

If we make your red car a guinea pig, I might fab up a T3 setup so we can try that HX35 churbo I have and maybe a Braineak 50 trim to see what that does with ALLOFIT. It wouldn't be a perfect test as a weld-el log would be different than your BEGI log, but probably close enough.

concealer404 08-29-2014 11:23 AM

Once Swank Force One is up again, i really don't give a shit what we do to the red car.

blaen99 11-23-2014 12:25 PM

Was this ever followed up on?

Due to recent events, a 4828 may be on par with a 2871/efr7163 power-wise. Dyno results may or may not follow depending on what I decide.

A 2860 is completely the wrong weight class for a 4828.

Chiburbian 11-23-2014 03:14 PM

Car is still waiting some fab work. Once that work is done I may pull it off and send out for testing. What leads you to those comparisons though?

blaen99 11-23-2014 05:59 PM

You'll have to wait until next weekend for more information.

It's going to be dyno'd by a forum mod (Curly), and not me, so impartiality should be assured.

Chiburbian 11-23-2014 06:13 PM

Cool. Looking forward to the results. Honestly my results haven't been nearly as impressive. It could be my setup.

blaen99 11-23-2014 06:18 PM

It's your exhaust I'm very confident, assuming you are still on the exhaust from early this year.

StealthNB 11-23-2014 07:09 PM

I am running a T4 twin scroll long tube header. Soon I am going to ditch the turbo for something more streatable with decent top end. I am in the 2867 2871 3068 3071 range although I drove a 3076 ball bearing turbo and I was very impressed.

Let's do a trade in program. I'll ship My turbo for one of yours and Ill post the results!! Next set up most likely be a Precision Ball bearing Turbo since they don't require coolant for bearing cooling

Chiburbian 11-23-2014 07:46 PM

Hmm... I wonder what the "best" way to handle that would be then. Buy a better 3" downpipe from off the shelf? Buy the Flyin Miata turbine outlet and have a 3" system created from that point back? Fab the whole thing up custom?

I am trying to hold off on buying parts twice and I feel that if I build the engine I will go EFR... I really don't know anymore. I guess this turbo could put me well over 300whp right?

blaen99 11-23-2014 09:47 PM

Chiburban,

I'm having to prepare to rebuild my entire fuel system to support 500rwhp+. Based on my discussions with Curly, I expect to hit low-to-mid 300rwhp and completely max out my injectors, but still have lots of room left in the turbo.

Again though, that's what I expect. Wait until this weekend where I have more impressions. However, whatever you decide to do, just put in an order with Artech and be done with it - never touch the stuff again.

P.S. A back to back with Pinky's special manifold is finally happening as well.

Chiburbian 11-23-2014 11:33 PM

one of my ideas is to go with the ARtech EFR compatible manifold but stick with the 4828 plus one of those 5 bolt to v-band outlets. Something like this: Garrett GT28 Turbo V Band Adapter- TREADSTONE PERFORMANCE

Adding an ARtech is still more money than I have right now to be sure.

It's the darn chicken and egg problem this whole car has been. Really I need to build the engine to take advantage of this turbo. However, even if I build the engine, I need to do the exhaust properly and if I am going to do the exhaust it doesn't make sense to spend money on that and keep the BEGI cast manifold... So an engine build means engine +manifold +exhaust.

blaen99 11-24-2014 12:06 AM

Frankly, in your shoes, I'd wait on my final results.

With a BEGi cast mani and artech exhaust, I plan on pushing it to it's limits. If the maxed out results are meh, go with efr.

However, based on information I have, results should not be meh. We'll both see next weekend however.

Chiburbian 11-24-2014 12:07 AM

Well, I am certainly waiting anxiously for you results.

Girz0r 11-24-2014 12:09 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by blaen99 (Post 1184813)
Frankly, in your shoes, I'd wait on my final results.

With a BEGi cast mani and artech exhaust, I plan on pushing it to it's limits. If the maxed out results are meh, go with efr.

However, based on information I have, results should not be meh. We'll both see next weekend however.

Sub'd, In for results :party:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1416848983

turbofan 11-24-2014 12:44 PM

Wool woop results soon! Dyno this weekend with Josh? Where?

blaen99 11-26-2014 09:22 PM

https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...2/#post1185473

Results.

Chiburbian 04-23-2018 10:31 PM

Bumping this just to keep the data in one place...

My Miata is on the road after a long winter and after some shop time it will be going in for a heart transplant.

10.5:1
e85
ported head w/ 1mm oversize valves
ID1000s
etc...

Hoping to tickle 400rwhp for the glory pull. When I have more i'll post a link to the proper place in my build thread and possibly dyno thread.

nitrodann 04-23-2018 10:39 PM

We have made 375whp on a dyno dynamics, shootout mode, strapped tight with the GT2860rs 0.86, it wasnt ALLOFIT, but it was pretty close. 12:1, E85, ported cammed BP05.

Dann

Chiburbian 04-23-2018 10:42 PM

We will see how it goes. Obviously dyno numbers are just numbers, but it would be nice to see if we can hit the target. Originally I was hoping for 380 but I am going to be optimistic :)


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