So I'm going to take the plunge.....AGAIN lol - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

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Old 03-28-2010, 03:44 PM   #21
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Maybe 1600 is a bit big, but with E85 you'll definitely want a bigger injector. Really depends on your goals, you should be able to hit 350+ on pump gas. With a turbo as big as you are looking at, 350 would be a good starting point where it would be very happy running and would even support up to 450-500. So might as well size your injectors for the ultimate goal with the car.
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Old 03-28-2010, 03:46 PM   #22
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I'll be happy with 350. Hell, I'll be happy with 300 too just as long as it holds or builds power ALL THE WAY up top and does not drop off
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Old 03-28-2010, 03:55 PM   #23
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350 will make it faster than your bike, lots of fun on the street.
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Old 03-28-2010, 03:57 PM   #24
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you gonna need some moar tire meat 18psi!
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Old 03-28-2010, 04:01 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayL View Post
350 will make it faster than your bike, lots of fun on the street.
I'm pretty sure its already faster than my bike. My bike is nothing special, does 12.9 @ 102. I'm very confident the car will trap 105-107 the way it sits right now.

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you gonna need some moar tire meat 18psi!
Absolutely.
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Old 03-28-2010, 04:01 PM   #26
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Aren't you glad you put rods in the motor when you rebuilt it now?

What kind of boost does it take on a turbo that size to get to 300whp? Absurdflow style mani, both hustler and i should be able to get our 2860s (.86 housing) to 300whp.
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Old 03-28-2010, 04:03 PM   #27
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I sure am
I'm thinking at 15-16psi I should be able to put down 300 with a 30r. Just a guess though.
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Old 03-28-2010, 05:03 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I sure am
I'm thinking at 15-16psi I should be able to put down 300 with a 30r. Just a guess though.
Wouldn't surprise me at all, have you turned up the boost on ur current setup. Might wanna give that a shot and see what you can come up with.
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Old 03-28-2010, 05:06 PM   #29
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Quote:
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Really? Holy **** I knew I'd need to go big but didn't know THAT big

I was thinking some 700-800cc's should be good for around 300-350 on a 30r. Am I wrong?
1150s seem to work well on 2.0L Evos running stock IX spec turbos (I got my set from a guy that upgraded to a 35R and needed 1,450s. Don't get crazy on size if you want to be able to run a dual map setup (93 pump on one map, E85 on the other)...supersized injectors are going to be harder to scale (especially idle & cold start) on 93. There's an E85 tuning forum over on EvolutionM.net that has a lot of good information on tuning for boost with E85.

Lastly, E85 rarely, if ever, knocks when you keep throwing timing at it. Not a good idea to keep adding timing until you hear knock (you probably won't). A MBT approach (minimum timing, best torque) will yield good and safe power.

I know what you mean about a huge turbo and E85; guy I got my 1150s from took me for a spin in his 35R turbo'd car running E85. On a third gear pull, it was a little doggy below 4grand but it hit 28lbs of boost before 5K and held it all the way to redline.
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Old 03-28-2010, 05:07 PM   #30
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I'm at 14 right now. Pulls hard as ****. bumped up the timing 4* and it definitely helped.

My header is warped though, and leaks like a BITCH so spool is very late, 4200ish, and it smells REALLLY bad due to all the exhaust leaking out, and sounds like a diesel

Pulls hard though.

I just want to start fresh and try a completely different approach to manifold, downpipe, exhaust, and intercooler setup.
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Old 03-28-2010, 05:10 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sn95 View Post
1150s seem to work well on 2.0L Evos running stock IX spec turbos (I got my set from a guy that upgraded to a 35R and needed 1,450s. Don't get crazy on size if you want to be able to run a dual map setup (93 pump on one map, E85 on the other)...supersized injectors are going to be harder to scale (especially idle & cold start) on 93. There's an E85 tuning forum over on EvolutionM.net that has a lot of good information on tuning for boost with E85.

Lastly, E85 rarely, if ever, knocks when you keep throwing timing at it. Not a good idea to keep adding timing until you hear knock (you probably won't). A MBT approach (minimum timing, best torque) will yield good and safe power.

I know what you mean about a huge turbo and E85; guy I got my 1150s from took me for a spin in his 35R turbo'd car running E85. On a third gear pull, it was a little doggy below 4grand but it hit 28lbs of boost before 5K and held it all the way to redline.
One of the cars locally is on a 30r running 15psi on 460cc's on pump gas. Its ALREADY faster than mine. I figure with a better flowing head, better flowing manifold and exhaust (his are utter pieces of ****) and e85 being controlled by the Adaptronic I could put down a hefty chunk more power than him.

And of course I won't throw insane timing at it, but it will be nice to go up a whopping 6-8* and still not knock.


I figure a 30r on 15-18psi probably won't max out a set of 700-800cc's
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Old 03-28-2010, 05:25 PM   #32
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Should look into fabbing a new intake mani while your at it.
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Old 03-28-2010, 05:37 PM   #33
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Yeah I was just thinking of that too. I think I'll max out the stocker and see where it tops out at before I do though.

Looking at 30r chinachargers. Anyone have any ideas on which ones are better? lol
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Old 03-28-2010, 06:37 PM   #34
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I am not sure 700cc is enough. But there is an insane E85 turbo Miata build thread on m.n somewhere. He is running huge injectors. With a 30R you are capable of playing in the same ballpark that he is in, 350+ RWHP, though he may have been as high as 400+.

On the Chinacharger ask DVCN (here) where he got his from. I do not think it is a 30R but maybe the same manufacturer makes one. Also check with BEGI since they are now selling Chinachargers and IIRC have found a good source.

Maybe do not sweat the IC too much, whatever fits. The E85 absorbs a huge amount of heat compared to gas so your air temps post injector are going to be pretty low. Plus the big turbo will be efficient and not heat the air as much.

If you do all this it is going to be a pretty sick car. If I had an E85 source near my commute I would be doing this too.

EDIT: Here it is. 1600cc injectors on a GT30R making 400+ HP. Awesome.
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread...&highlight=e85

Last edited by ZX-Tex; 03-28-2010 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:18 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
One of the cars locally is on a 30r running 15psi on 460cc's on pump gas. Its ALREADY faster than mine. I figure with a better flowing head, better flowing manifold and exhaust (his are utter pieces of ****) and e85 being controlled by the Adaptronic I could put down a hefty chunk more power than him.

And of course I won't throw insane timing at it, but it will be nice to go up a whopping 6-8* and still not knock.


I figure a 30r on 15-18psi probably won't max out a set of 700-800cc's
I'd go with at least 800cc injectors (unless you already own a set of 700s)....you are most likely going to get complacent after a few months at 15-18psi and decide to up the boost into the low twenties...not sure the 700s will be big enough for that.
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:40 PM   #36
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Found an article a while back thinking about making the switch myself. If you're running MS2 you can use the GM Flex Fuel sensor which somehow knows what fuel is going through your lines.

Another fun thing I've learned was the 'myths' about running E85 in standard OEM tanks, lines, and intake manifolds are pretty much just that. There are local honda guys who've had E85 sitting inside a stock gas tank for a couple years with misc fuel system parts immersed in it with no ill effects.

To get 350hp from 4 injectors with forced induction you're looking about 600cc injectors on Gasoline. According to Injector Rehab you take that number and multiply it by 1.47.

600cc x 1.47 = 882cc

Maybe 1000cc injectors to be safe?

Just noticed you're actually running the Adaptronic so obviously that'll be something you'll need to research yourself about the fuel sensor. What I'd like to do is use the fuel sensor and map switching just in case no good fuel is available, I'd still have a tune which could be somewhat powerful.
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Old 03-28-2010, 10:11 PM   #37
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We have e85 on every other corner around here, so I'm not too concerned about switching back and forth between it and regular 91.
I've also read the thread where TravisR basically said the adaptronic can use the flex fuel sensor as well.

I guess 1000cc injectors should do then

Everyone I know running e85 locally is doing it on stock tank/lines. Just a big pump, a high flow rail, and big injectors
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Old 03-28-2010, 10:27 PM   #38
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I am building for 280+ whp on a 2560R with E85. I ran through the calculations a few times, I was getting 800cc for 300 wheel, with some decent headroom. I got 1000cc IDs, a Walbro 255, an AEM afpr and an mtuned dual feed rail fed with -6 AN plumbing. I don't want to buy another ******* injector. I'm only tuning with E85 now, maybe I'll do flex fuel with an ECU upgrade. I will not settle for less than MBT in every cell.
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Old 03-28-2010, 10:31 PM   #39
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You inspire my future plans 18psi!!
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Old 03-28-2010, 11:59 PM   #40
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I was thinking the same thing as you 18psi. I even made an announcement to all my friends on facebook. But I'm a few years away! I could go that route or build the Nissan I always wanted. Anyways, Looking forward to a build thread.
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