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Old 08-25-2014, 04:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
oh yeah, those ev6 rx8 injectors will love all the gape
I think he was talking about the EV1 Supra 440s on the MX6. Think i was near 60psi base, boost referenced.
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Old 09-07-2014, 02:15 AM   #22
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So anyways, I keep looking at t25 plots every time I'm bored. I have concluded that they are all nearly identical (the ones done right, and on a 1.8 that is).

All start picking up torque right away, all do an almost perfectly linear taper to 200 from 2k to 3600, all hold that til 5-5.5, all drop torque after that while keeping 200hp to redline.

I have yet to see a plot of one on a tubular manifold, on a vvt engine. Should I expect even quicker spool? Or is that one of those things that SHOULD happen in theory but doesn't quite work out in reality?

Also I want to know what everyone thinks of injector requirements for a powerband like this on pump and e85. I'm guessing somewhere in the 450cc range for e85 and 350cc on pump?
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Old 09-07-2014, 09:27 AM   #23
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Correct. NA system on a 99 head.
Sorry, Vlad; a quick question for Concealor:

Where, on the manifold, are you sourcing reference for the FPR?
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Old 09-07-2014, 10:10 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
So anyways, I keep looking at t25 plots every time I'm bored. I have concluded that they are all nearly identical (the ones done right, and on a 1.8 that is).

All start picking up torque right away, all do an almost perfectly linear taper to 200 from 2k to 3600, all hold that til 5-5.5, all drop torque after that while keeping 200hp to redline.

I have yet to see a plot of one on a tubular manifold, on a vvt engine. Should I expect even quicker spool? Or is that one of those things that SHOULD happen in theory but doesn't quite work out in reality?

Also I want to know what everyone thinks of injector requirements for a powerband like this on pump and e85. I'm guessing somewhere in the 450cc range for e85 and 350cc on pump?
I can only speak to my supercharged experiance on the 200 HP on E-85 question. I made 200 HP on E-85 on 425 cc/min RX8 injectors, walbro 255 lph pump, on a NB1 with steady 60 psi fuel pressure (not boost referenced). I suspect I was close to 100% duty cycle, but that was on the stock ECU with AIDS so no data logging so I don't really know. I would go with at least 450's since your setup will make more torque than mine did with the supercharger, and if you want some safety margin go with 500's.

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Old 09-07-2014, 01:32 PM   #25
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Thanks man. That's what I'll be shooting for.

Actually, I just realized since I'm installing ID1000's into the subaru, the stock subaru ev6 550cc injectors will be available to use in the miata. I think they're only a few mm shorter, but should otherwise fit.
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Old 09-07-2014, 01:58 PM   #26
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Give me 6 weeks and I will hopefully have a nice chart for you. Getting ready to head out and pick up 2 sr20 t25's.
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Old 09-08-2014, 10:30 AM   #27
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Quote:
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Yes.

I was just admirin that in the Horton hears a HOO thread.

Looks like a really fun daily driver powerband. I am kinda surprised at how boost sets in - while progressive and really linear/smooth, I kinda sorta expected the tiny little pea shooter to get to peak torque sooner.

I'm hoping with vvt + tubular mani + e85 I can somehow hit peak closer to 3k, but we'll see (I'm working with 2.5" exhaust so might not be possibru)

Hey i just remembered something:

It's building boost like that (Slow and linear) because it's just on wastegate. No boost controller of any kind.

I expect it to turn pretty violent with the next round of work planned.

However, as Twodoor might now vouch for, i can't say that i think the boost control i'm going to add is actually going to make for a better car at all. Just more tire smoke and sketchy-ness.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMakinson View Post
Sorry, Vlad; a quick question for Concealor:

Where, on the manifold, are you sourcing reference for the FPR?
Not sure, to be quite honest. I'll take a look later.
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Old 09-08-2014, 10:34 AM   #28
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Wow, well that's interesting. I wonder if every single plot I've seen thus far is just wg then, cause like I said - they all look nearly identical.

...but likely there isn't much difference, cause it already comes on so quick. Post results either way tho.
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Old 09-08-2014, 10:43 AM   #29
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Small turbo or not, every car i've ever put a decent boost controller on ended up spooling harder and faster than when it ran just on wastegate. I wouldn't expect this car to be any different.

I don't expect onset to be any earlier, but i do expect it to hit max boost earlier, which will probably affect torque numbers a bit.

I'll just need to find a dyno operator smart enough to let me start a pull from 1000rpms.
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Old 09-08-2014, 10:49 AM   #30
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Oh yeah I completely agree with what you're saying. And if you're right, this will prove once again to be the perfect turbo for what I'm looking to do soon.

I just hope my journal bearing t25 is not much different from the ball bearing counterpart in terms of powerband.

And yes, it starts pulls at 2k or it gets the hose.
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Old 09-08-2014, 01:26 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Small turbo or not, every car i've ever put a decent boost controller on ended up spooling harder and faster than when it ran just on wastegate. I wouldn't expect this car to be any different.

I don't expect onset to be any earlier, but i do expect it to hit max boost earlier, which will probably affect torque numbers a bit.

I'll just need to find a dyno operator smart enough to let me start a pull from 1000rpms.
Go to Cozzolino Motorsports. That is where I dyno my car there in Indy. Tell them what RPM range you are shooting for and that is what they will set up. I hope to be there this Friday

Keith
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Old 10-29-2014, 11:43 AM   #32
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moar

Thirdgen:



Shuiend:



I have still yet to find a plot that starts at 2k, has proper boost control, and is a 1.8
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Old 10-29-2014, 11:52 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
moar

Shuiend:



I have still yet to find a plot that starts at 2k, has proper boost control, and is a 1.8
I have not seen that dyno in a long time. That was the first time I ever had the car on a dyno back in 2008. It was up in Delaware at a MT.net dyno day. The goal for the day was to beat my good friends super charged AP1 S2000 in torque. He made 300whp and 180ft/lbs of torque. Basically I had a cheap MBC and we cranked up the boost a bit and I crushed the S2000 in torque. After the dyno runs I ended up backing the boost down some.
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Old 10-29-2014, 11:56 AM   #34
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yeah lol all the plots I keep seeing are ancient, I guess people just don't post t25 plots anymore, it's old news and everyone is drooling over GTX/EFR plots.

so that run did have boost control, ok, interdasting.

wish you started it at 2k, I just find it hard to believe that it takes til 3.5 to hit 200tq on such a little turbo (I always judge lowend grunt on cars based on how quick they get to 200tq)
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Old 10-29-2014, 12:13 PM   #35
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From my build thread

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Old 10-29-2014, 12:51 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
yeah lol all the plots I keep seeing are ancient, I guess people just don't post t25 plots anymore, it's old news and everyone is drooling over GTX/EFR plots.

so that run did have boost control, ok, interdasting.

wish you started it at 2k, I just find it hard to believe that it takes til 3.5 to hit 200tq on such a little turbo (I always judge lowend grunt on cars based on how quick they get to 200tq)
I also want to mention that I was on a stock exhaust for that dyno, so that definitely did not help with spool any. As for starting it, the dyno operator was in charge of that.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:07 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by RedCarmel View Post
From my build thread

[IMG]https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/build-threads-57/78150d1370227412-redcarmels-copycat-build-runs-1-8-jpg[IMG]
very cool, thanks for that. I'll check out your build thread.

**edit:
Now I remember your thread, I even posted in it

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
I also want to mention that I was on a stock exhaust for that dyno, so that definitely did not help with spool any. As for starting it, the dyno operator was in charge of that.
o rly? wow not bad.

Last edited by 18psi; 10-29-2014 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 04-05-2015, 03:55 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
I need to re-dyno it. Have a couple more changes to make. (3" downpipe, get VICS working, turn up the boost.) Currently, in real life, it hits a lot harder/earlier than that chart would suggest. 2nd gear mashing at 1500rpms means you're spinning tires HARD by 2500rpm.

I'll be able to get peak torque a bit lower. And much more of it.

I'd like to see 250wtq out of it. Will probably require a hell of a spike, but i ain't scurred.
I can't spin the tires when it's not raining, in any gear, with the plot below. I find that odd. I actually remembered reading this and actively seeked out this comment to reply to it and share my disappointment. I've tried stomping on it at 4k in first, nada. And I have 195/50/15 320TW tires. lol.

For the purposes of this thread though, this is using a 7psi wastegate. I need to try another source or line size though, as it obviously isn't opening fast enough. You can see the little dip in the boost curve as it crosses the 7psi barrier. I'm sure it would spool much faster with EBC and the wastegate working properly.

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Old 06-10-2015, 08:58 AM   #39
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Figured i'd post here as well since Schuyler and i were talking about this yesterday night.

Schuyler, if you could post my VD (it's herpes!) that would be awesome of you.
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Old 06-10-2015, 10:05 PM   #40
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Concealers voodoo magic 2554 VD.

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