Turbo Heat Ranges?
 

Was at the track this past weekend. After a session i did some checking of temps in the engine bay. I'm getting some really high numbers for the turbine.

Turbo turbine housing - 2000 degrees F

Is this normal?
I was thinking this is a bit unsafe. Say if the oil return hose were to burst or something and hit the turbo, instant fire!

Forgot to mention turbo setup.

It is the turbo from the Greddy kit, but I only have the turbo. Apexi Intercooler /w custom end tanks, ARC BOV, custom intercooler piping. Running a fairly big Setrab oil cooler too. I think the oil temps were a bit low, due to the extremely cold weather, around 160 F. Running 10w30 Mobile One oil.

Water Temps were around 180 F, but for those who dont know, the TD04 is only oil cool.

Hopefully one of the experts can comment but I believe normal peak power exhaust temperatures are about 1650 degrees F. So, yes, that does sound high.

but what would cause that. i can't think a single thing that i'm missing. my IC is fairly big too, proper oil cooling.

Forgot to mention, boosting roughly 12psi.

EGT roughly 1600-1700 F
AFR is pretty rich too, but completely safe. Probably 9.5 AFR at 12 psi

1. I'd love to hear what you're using to measure temperatures in the 2000 degree range. The best automotive pyrometers out there max out at that, and I doubt you held a pyrometer on top of your compressor housing long enough to get that reading.

2. 9.5:1 AFRs are not safe. You're washing your cylinder walls down with fuel, which corrupts the oil and causes spun main bearings. Learn to tune your car, or hire someone who knows how.

edit: What the fuck do you mean by "probably" 9.5:1? Do you have a wideband or are you guessing?

1. im reffering to the outside compressor housing temperature. i'm using one of those Infared temperature guns.

2. Funny part is, this was after tuned. the tuner fucked up. I'm going to another tuner next month. didnt have time to get it tuned again before the event. I was assuming that as long as it's not too lean it was okay for the mean time.

i have a wideband, LC-1. wasn't data logging though.

You do mean your turbine housing not your compressor housing right? Not trying to split hairs just making sure I understand.

Not sure how your compressor temp would be higher than your EGT. I'm going to agree w/ Savington and say its your instrumentation.

woops yeah ment to say turbine, sorry.

i was using something like this to measure it
Craftsman Non-Contact Infrared Thermometer, High-Temperature, Laser-Directed - Model 42540 at Sears.com

i know its not 100% accurate, but even in the ballpark that's kinda high.

Seems a tad off, although you are still about 800 degrees or so away from melting it.

Learn to fucking read.

dude, do you have a stick up your ass or what.

fuck man. i'm asking for help and your being a fucken asshole.

if you hate the world go cut yourself something don't vent on me.

and you fucken learn to read. I SAID SOMETHING LIKE THIS MOTHERFUCKER!

why do you even bother posting if your not going to help.

lol i was thinking the same thing

why don't you cry about it, in the corner, like an emo ------.




oh wait. :giggle:

lol he said motherfucker.

how bout this, what is the diameter of your downpipe, and do you have a cat?

I'm with Sav.... :hustler: :confused:

Listen Simon; get past Savington's poor choice of words and fix those AFRs asap!

What EMS are you using?

Do some street tuning as soon as you can. Take those AFRs to between 11.5 and 12.0.

His explanation is solid.

BTW, please post your location below your Avatar. This way we know if you have some other forum member close by.

You don't have any hesitation or bogging with that AFR?

Must be that time of the month for Savington.

I'd be grumpy too if I was a mod at m.net.

Normally I would be too, but I think Sav missed the two key words in what Hi Im Simon wrote, which make a big difference. I think he meant he was using a similar device.

Doesn't matter. Everything that absorbs heat in this world works off temperature differentials. If your EGTs are only 1700 degrees, there is no physically possible scenario that allows the compressor housing to obtain 2000 degrees. None. That is such a basic tenant of not just physics, but COMMON SENSE.

Just for shits and giggles, I did a quick Google search to see what kind of laser pyrometer would do 2000 degrees. The cheapest one I found was a thousand fucking dollars. Excuse me for not assuming that you own that particular model.

This is simple shit, and not deserving of a thread.

piping for exhaust is 2.5'' all the way thru, no cat.
Running AEM EMS management.

for some reason the car doesn't hesitate at all at those AFR's.
I had a spec miata guy drive it too, and he said that it's a bit sluggish but not too bad.

I also have an AEM. I've seen those kinds of AFRs in mine and the car didn't hesitate either, but that's not safe.

Are you running 550cc injectors? If so, pm me.

Sav's deduction is right, to a point.

At a point of restriction of flow, additional heat will be created. This happens in both liquids and gases. This problem is often seen in my line of work with regard to fluid dymnamics in hydraulic systems. As a volume of fluid or gas travels under pressure through a restriction point it will increase the temperature of the fluid or gas at that point. The greater the restriction, and the accompanying rise in pressure and velocity through that point, the greater the temp rise.

4 or 5 hundred degrees rise over EGT sounds off, though. I, like Savington, will question the accuracy of the device. Most measuring devices tend to be most accurate in the middle of their operating ranges, and not so accurate at either extreme end. And certainly not outside of their effective ranges. Unless you have the thousand dollar model, of course.

This is the part where I'm supposed to call you a "lint licker." YouTube - Orbitz Office #37
Sav is a potty mouth, but he is very knowledgeable.

My adult language matches my adult ideas.

post your spark table.

i'm running 440 injectors, i'll post up my spark and fuel table when i get home.
i know nothing of engine tuning, thus is why i paid someone to tune it.
i was recommended this guy, but i guess he wasn't the greatest choice for tuning miatas.

it definately could be a possiblility that the temperature exceed the instruments upper value and was throwing random numbers.

thanks for helping out

if he's putting AFR's in the 9's, then he's either tuning for e85 cruising or he's a dumbass...he's a dumbass. Hopefully he doesn't get much business.

would it be possible to run your setup and reduce the entire graph by percentage different in injector size? i guess 20%?

read megamanual. If you could follow simple instructions like entering your location, then someone here could probably help you in person.

Make an AFR target table, use MLV to autotune it, then fine tune. You can do it.

FYI --
I've done some reading and it appears that the velocity of the exhaust gases can increase from around 300 feet per second in the exhaust manifold up to 2000 feet per second entering the turbine. Knowing that, I will recant what I said about it being possible to be 400 to 500 degrees hotter at the turbine housing. It seems more than possible. It seems probable. The gases will get hotter as they enter the decreasing diameter area in the neck of the turbine housing due to increased speed.
For example:
In hydraulics, a .5 inch diameter smooth pipe with 10 gpm of flow generates 25 BTUs of heat just from the friction of the flow. Doubling the flow to 20 gpm increases the heat output by eight times up to 200 BTUs. Of course, air creates far less friction and drag than hydraulic oil, but the properties remain the same even if the effect is less dramatic in air.

Look mom, I'm a car nerd!

And then they reduce again once they exit the turbine. In addition, if the velocity increases by 8x, the time exposure goes down by 8x.

here's the tables, i took screen shots. he tuned it using boost fuel correction table.

let me know if you need any other tables.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b.../FuelTable.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...ctiontable.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...Sparktable.jpg

Timing map looks good, mabye a touch conservative but we have total shit for gas out here. Take your car to Sean Church and have him redo the fuel map.

i was thinking of going to HB Speed to tune it.
they did a great job on my friends subaru and they have tuned many miatas.
only thing is they are super booked right now.