Turbo with no fuelling.
 

So i have had my 5 for a few months now and am just about to finish painting it so im now looking to gain some BHP.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403200563
So im going down the turbo route and i want to know what would happen if i bolted a turbo on with out any fuel or new ECU.

2. what your views on rising fuel pressure regulator. i have heard they ruin your MPG and as mine is a daily driver i need the MPG.

3. are you able to just remap the stock ECU.

thanks guys i have been reading up on this for a long time and im just working it all out before makeing my mainifold and finding a turbo and start to build up my kit.

Terrible things.

More of the same.

Nah.

Don't lie to us.

lol. no i have been reading for a long time. the one thing im stuck on is the fueling. and the issue is most foums just say dont do this and do this instead of saying WHY not to do this.

So guys why should i not use a rising pressue reglator and why cant i use the stock ECU. just so i understand more why to go down the piggyback or standalong ECU route

OK fine.


Why shouldn't you use an FMU? Because they're garbage.

Why can't you use the stock ECU? Because it's for a stock motor making stock power, naturally aspirated.

Why shouldn't you use a piggyback? Because they're garbage.

Why should you use a standalone? Because they're awesome.




Why didn't you already know all these things? Because you haven't done a damn bit of research yourself.

I echo concealer's answers. You sound as though you still have a whole lot of learning to do. Especially if you are planning to turbocharge your DD. For that to even be a feasible option you need to COMPLETELY understand how every part of your turbo system operates, the possible problems that could occur, and be able to answer simple questions like these yourself.

This is coming from someone who is about to swap in a fully built motor with a big boy turbo setup into my primary vehicle. Every time I touch my car on the weekend it has to be back together and running Monday morning. This requires a complete understanding of what I am getting myself in to and a lot of help from friends on this forum. You can't half ass this shit and expect good results that you will be satisfied with on a DD.

Because NB.

Because it has no clue what to do when you go into boost.

The Stock ECU is not Tuneable.... the Rising rate FPR isnt tuneable either... You will either be too rich, or too lean... no in between across the entire RPM range.
The stock injectors arent capable of fueling with a turbo. adding the FPR just increases the pressure to the injectors, FORCING them to give more fuel... WAY over their efficiency threshold. One day, an injector is going to Quit opening, and your motor will go boom....
And based on the questions you have asked thus far, That pretty NB you have there, will be no more than a paperweight if it blows, Because a rebuild would be WAY out of the question

Did you paint the car without primer/prep?

Cheers supercooper just the sort of awnsers i was looking for. unlike the other people here

and no the paintwork was great to start of with so just good scotch over and paint why you ask

They all said the same thing basically... im just more bored... haha

You HAVE to have a standalone, and some accomidating injectors. there is a small list of some things you can skimp on, and those 2 are NOT on that list

:facepalm:

He was comparing doing shitty prep work for a turbo setup to do shitty prep work for paint. The results will suffer tremendously. You should purchase a standalone (megasquirt preferably) and some injectors and get it running NA before you take any further steps to turbocharge the car.

oh guys so whats the most cost effect stand alone ECU out there. dont want cheep cheep but dont want to throw all that money at a meggascurt. what about a microsqurt

I would suggest not turboing your vehicle.

Most cost effective way would be to build your own megasquirt 3, but I wouldn't suggest that after what I've seen in this thread so far....

So I'd suggest https://www.miataturbo.net/ms-labs-m...ms-labs-69930/

You are not getting around spending about $1000 on some sort of MS and a wideband. The sooner you realize that and accept it, the easier it will be for you.

:idea:

You can find them for pretty cheap on this forum in the classifieds. If you cannot justify spending $300-$400 for an ECU then you really should not be turbocharging a vehicle because you have no chance of doing it right. That is dirt cheap as far as engine management goes.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403205121

I am really waiting for the questions that come with what parts does he need for the actual turbo hardware. Those should be a blast.

I'm more waiting for the "how many pounds of boost is ok?" question.

I'm waiting for the 12psi = 12psi declaration.

Are you trying to tell me it is not?

Jesus. We don't even know if trubo hit bolck yet. Why worry about the ECU when we don't even know if the turbo can be installed?

On a serious note:

OP, I know well the difference between bandaids and real management, though I learned on a different platform. I tried using an SAFC, it was a dismal failure. And that was even with a separate datalogging setup in place that I doubt you would have if you took the bandaid route. If not for the logger I would have blown up the thing.

Basically, with a bandaid (like a powercard or RRFPR) you have a very limited adjustment range, and low resolution in that range to boot. Perhaps even more horribly, you don't have a built-in data logging capability.

Meaning that you have a fair chance of say, not being able to deliver enough fuel at all over a large portion of the rev range. If you do have the capability to deliver enough, you will almost inevitably deliver too much at one point, then too little at another. And you will probably not know where you are on that spectrum beyond some awful generalizations like, 'it smells rich'.

Or more importantly than fueling even, timing. You can certainly monkey with base timing and some sort of bandaid to alter the curve. But getting your timing low enough to avoid detonation (especially with the effed up fueling we just discussed) will probably result in your car driving like a dog at part throttle and under normal circumstances. Fuel economy will also go down the tubes.

And best of all, in the process of tweaking all this stuff in a half-assed fashion, you are very likely to run lean and with too much timing at some point, and not know it (no built-in data logging). Which can result in dead engine syndrome.

Suddenly the $300 bucks MAX you just saved by going with a bunch of bandaids instead of engine management like MS has been swallowed up with the ($xxxx) need to rebuild a shortblock at a minimum. And you were dog slow anyway when it was running because you were probably running too rich with retarded timing which did great for spool but resulted in a low TQ peak # that came on at about 4200 RPM and dropped like a rock after 5000. So sort of like the powerband of a large cube engine, but without the TQ and fun.

A rebuilt T25 turbo setup with MS and proper injectors and WB02 > a fancy Garret GTX or something running on bandaids. Not only will the properly managed setup drive better overall and be far less likely to explode, it will quite possibly be faster even in a plain straight line. And cost the same initially and cost less down the road when you don't have to upgrade a pile of crappy bandaids and a blown motor.

You can get a cheap intercooler and do OK. You can make janky charge pipes and do OK. You can get a fairly crappy exhaust manifold and do OK even. You can have a awful ill-fitting exhaust and do OK. You can even have a Chinese turbo and do OK. Engine management is one of the areas where its really just insane to skimp, mostly because doing it right is actually easier in the long run and about the same cost.

props for nice well written response.