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Turbo Track Project.
After reading and learning a lot, i put my flame suit on and decided to present "myself" and my project.
One thing to keep in mind, i'm located in France/Europe - important when guiding me to US based suppliers/products that may not be so easily available and/or affordable once shipping + custom duty + 20% VAT is applied (Think US price x 2). The base car is a '99 10AE. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b2f8e41822.jpg car on track.. So far it is fitted with: - meister R CRD+ - racing beat front bar - Jass Perf frame rail - Hard dog Sport M2 roll bar - Wilwood 11" front / oem @ rear - no proportioning valve install yet (it lays patiently on the garage shelf...) - 15x9 Advanti storm S2 with 225/45 nankang AR-1 As for the engine, i've been running with an MS3 ( with AEM WB) for the past 2 years to get use myself with tuning/ and the software... except i haven't been "playing" with ignition yet by lack of time/balls to tune just by myself + the oem knock sensor. Clutch is Exedy stage one ( will upgrade To competition clutch stage 3(?) later...) with the 6sp trans (oem on the 10AE) I've also already gathered other parts in the past months/year ; - 19row setrab for oil cooler with 10AN lines and mocal sandwich plate. - 775cc FIC injectors (with pigtails) - Walbro 255 + fuel fuel regulator I have great fun with the car, but i've started to be a bit fed up of being held up on trackdays in the twisties by "slower" car that would just vanished in the straights and just to find them "again" by the mid portion of the twisties of the local tracks... So i've decided to turbo the car. The project will be a continuous process, so i'm not going to spend 5-8 000USD at once. my idea is to get some good parts that allow me to run with a stock engine at the beginning (aiming at 220-230rwhp) and once i've financially recover form the first step, forge the engine and run more power (around 300rwhp). As for the manifold/DP/exhaust i'll go with Kraken manifold, 2"5 DP, 2"75 (or 3" if required for my final power goal) exhaust, magnaflow 18" muffler... because it is the best solution this side of the ocean at my spending level. I'm not sure just what Turbo to choose between GT2560RS and GT2860 RS (disco potato). I found lots of opinions, but most of them include a "daily drive" input that is not applying to my project and/or involve a 1.6 engine. EFR are just not in my financial reach and GT2871r seems to be a bit "too much" for my power goals, as i don't intend to change the transmission which is a 6 speed). I'll tray to keep things "reasonnable"... and reliable. As for the threads i'm interested in now; aero, ducting, how to save weight at the front of the car ( i'm myself less than 160lbs... :)), brake questions (OG racing threads...)... Your comments/opinions are most welcome even if i get bruised in the process ;) |
Welcome. Solid car and build plan. No flames needed.... lol.
are you buying the turbos new or used? if buying new, an efr6258 t25 .64ar only costs a few hundred more, and its light years better than the 3 Garrett's you mentioned. And can make 200-400hp easily. kraken efr setup cost same as t25. also consider that you dont need to spend on buying a blow off valve and electric boost controller, as those are built in to the efr. And with this factored in, the price difference becomes much smaller. Get the efr with the low boost actuator for stock engine. And run 8-9psi for about 220hp. Medium boost actuator is 10-11 psi minimum and about 250hp, 220tq. A bit high for a stock block track car. |
The T28xx turbos will be less likely to generate detonation on a track car than a T25xx because they will generate less back pressure and less heat. This may also be an advantage of the 71mm instead of the 60mm compressor. Early spool will not be as important on the track and you will be able to make the same power with less pressure and less heat. Chose a .86 exhaust housing.
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thanks for your answers
Originally Posted by borka
(Post 1510631)
if buying new, an efr6258 t25 .64ar only costs a few hundred more, and its light years better than the 3 Garrett's you mentioned. And can make 200-400hp easily.
Even if i know it is a better turbo, i don't have plan to go much higher beyond 300rwhp; so the extra room offered by the EFR is not "well spent" in my view.
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1510634)
The T28xx turbos will be less likely to generate detonation on a track car than a T25xx because they will generate less back pressure and less heat. This may also be an advantage of the 71mm instead of the 60mm compressor. Early spool will not be as important on the track and you will be able to make the same power with less pressure and less heat. Chose a .86 exhaust housing.
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Following Shuiend advices i started step 2 : fitting bigger injectors The 6 simple steps ...,
I was suprised by some loom wiring that was in the way of the upper chamber of the intake manifold (BP4W) and that was not mention in either the mazda workshop documentation and the Haynes manual. I know that the wiring has been butchered at some point, but this area seemed to be pretty much oem. anyway, one i open in half the manifold, i could finally see if a oil catch can is or will be required as i found some oil.... all of it after the trottle body . Is this level of oil stain normal for a 88 000 miles car? https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...aad1c1ce8f.jpg pics is upside down. at the bottom, the infamous wiring loom that was in the way. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a22f71631d.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8514d365a9.jpg The PCV valve seems to be operating correctly. what's your opinion. also a Boundary Stage 2 oil pump is on its way and the manifold/ exhaust kit sould be shipped soon. |
That is very normal for NBs. Normal for NAs too I’d assume, but you can’t split their manifolds. I’m guessing most of this would be taken care of by a catch can? |
Hi there...
progress have been slow but i kept santa Busy! https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a43c020b71.jpg Not obvious but it is a Full 3" exhaust, with cat (and a bypass depending on the mood), resonator and 18" magnaflow. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c540090a8d.jpg a cast Kraken T25 manifold with cast elbow ( 2.5" as 3" were not ready yet) https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a15d010b71.jpg I also decided to take care of the oil mist coming form the PCV valve with a moroso air/oil separator. Not sure i'm willing to go with a 2 can set up even if i can say that there was a tiny qty of mist in the intake pipe, meaning that some oil get through the breather on the driver side... but a tiny bit so no catch can for now Regarding this driver side breather, i suppose i'll have to do "something" as, when i'll be in boost, it be become pessurised right? Shall I run a hose from the breather to the ai intake, before air filter? there surely is some king of depression at that spot? https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8fb6c40945.jpg will have to make my own bracket to go over the ABS brake line, as i intend to keep it. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c6754b1f51.jpg Surprisingly, the oil baffle is quite high and close to the metalic mesh. dunno if it' good or bad. |
the 775cc injectors are in. the car manage to start -cold ( temp in the low 40's) but was runnig lean ( High 17:vash:)
After some tweaking, the car could hold it's 14.7 AFR while idling, ( +/- 0.2). As for the turbo, i decided to play it "safe" or "petit bras" as we say here... After thinking again, i realize that I shouldn't seek power but reliability. So far i had a lot of fun on trackdays because i could just go on track, and drive all day long, without having to worry about something breaking down. I know it sounds contradictory with turboing the car, but i still want more power so... it will get a turbo but i'll try to make it reliable. Turbo will be a Garrett GT2560 with inconel turbine and ni-resist housing (836023-5004s) in order to help me managing the heat/withstanding the heat. I'll aim at 200whp, reliable on track, and, when that is reached ( => when i can drive 30 mins leg with heat being managed), i'll start to play with boost and advance settings... |
Hi Herduge!!
Very funny to find you here, i've created my account few days ago. I'm Ragnar Lothbrok (Erwan) on MX5 France ;) "Le monde est petit", as we say in France I've bought last week a Turbo kit from a stock mazdaspeed. So, i come here to find some advices to put it in my NBFL :rolleyes: I'll follow your topic with attention. I need to create my. See u soon Erwan |
As we are learning, a big part of managing overall heat is intake temps, back pressure on the exhaust etc.
Others can advise better than me but it is likely that you might want to still consider the 2860 as suggested above for these reasons. Maybe you don't need the larger housings if yoru power goals are now lower though? On track the earlier spool of the smaller turbo will not be noticeable... Anyway, I actually came here to suggest that you may easily find a single catch can is all that is required. We race in all sorts of events from superlap to 30 minutes sprint races. The only time we ever had oil in the catch can was when there were "engine" related issues. Like melted pistons etc..... https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0431f64228.jpg Really similar setup to your list of goodies. Kraken manifold, 2.5" DP, GT2860rs, single catch can. currently at 344whp. |
Thanks for your input and what a nice engine bay! very neat!
As for the turbo, i ordered the 2560R... If i ever "need" more power, i'll jump to something like GT2871 and forge the engine!!! the GT2871 is supposed to be the biggest turbo that work with the kraken T25 ;) I wonder though why you put the one catch can on the vent side (your passenger side)? Your catch can is vented in the air so i wonder why not just install a small air filter directly onto the cam cover? it would require to clean/change the filter from time to time though. Since the catch can is not connected to the air intake (pre turbo on your setup) there isn't any depression helping the venting as it does on the oem setup. so from my level of undersatnding, and it is just the pressure inside the cam cover that make the venting. Can you direct me to your build thread so that i can better understand some of your choices ( no brake booster, open timing belt, how you dealt with IC and oil cooler...) |
I dont have a build thread sorry. its only recently i found them! :)
Catch can is to catch any oil or vapor at high revs. If there ever is an oil leak with just an air filter direct in to the cam cover it would very easily catch fire right next to the red hot turbo etc. Though our car is road legal it is really only for ease of getting to wheel alignment shops etc (and resale value, track only cars here just don't EVER sell) . It really is a mostly track car. For this reason we did the booster delete....I found the pedal was (relatively speaking) very slow to return up travel when in a brake lock situation. I felt it was the booster slowing it down and it seems like it was. Unlocking a front tyre is a lot easier now. Not that it happens a lot but one of our tracks has a very steep 4th gear to 2nd, down hill hairpin that it is very easy to lock up in to. However it is lovely to drive on the road/around without booster. We use a standard size master but change the pedal throw ratio to compensate. - Open cam belt cover is a mix of looks and ease of service, visibility etc. - IC is pretty standard low mount in front of 949 crossflow radiator. - Also recently went to an rx7 style oil cooler that sits above IC in front of radiator. Oil cooler is fed from a thermo block. |
I decided to pull the engine out in order to perform the turbo install.
Not necessary for "just" the turbo install but with an oil baffle and boundary oil pump in the" to do list", it's well worth the extra work to perform all the tasks with more comfort. i just hope i didn't overestimate myself since so far, before working on the miata, i had only change pads and brakes discs on my cars! https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a75ae3cf07.jpg For those who may hesistate working on their car... |
Originally Posted by mx5-kiwi
(Post 1522295)
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Haha, thank you. All the credit goes to our race mechanic/engineer.
EFR is purchased and ready, waiting on Kraken for the 3" v band DP. |
Originally Posted by Lokiel
(Post 1522474)
This is how I imagine God's MX5 looks, but with a Borg-Warner turbocharger instead.
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Originally Posted by mx5-kiwi
(Post 1522479)
Haha, thank you. All the credit goes to our race mechanic/engineer.
EFR is purchased and ready, waiting on Kraken for the 3" v band DP. 3" cast elbow shouldn't be too long to come now:pitlab: just got my GT2560R.... Now where do i route the IC piping? On the top, behind headlights like Patsmx5 or the more common routing, down near the sway bar??? My IC will be smaller than Patsmx5 (550x160) so if i go the headlight route, i have to fin a way to get the air flow to the IC, which will be in front of the TOP part of the water radiator... Too much trouble for not much gain? is there any "real life gain" by having a simpler-less angle IC piping? |
How do you like those Nankangs? I've been eye balling a set for my 14" wheels.
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I really enjoy them :
1st set 205/50 r15 2nd set 225/45 r45 them hold up pretty well, at least to my standard... for a track tire, that get punished! A lot of guys ( regular trackday drivers, in the top ten of the "miata tracking community" here) where impressed by the grip i got out the 225/45 ( well i guess it is supposed to be expected from a 225 :rofl:). I could keep up with them even if they had 60hp more on a track they knew that was new to me... making up in the bends what i lot in the straight. The need more pressure than R888 ( around 2.1b hot vs 1.85-1.9)... to work well. At least, it did for me, as i was quicker. They are heavier than their competitor, but are still faster, so... |
While waiting to get all the gear to get the engine out.... i found stuff that i could do!
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c4c27db2ac.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...245833776d.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2ab7baf58b.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e56c203a92.jpg Quality of the part and kit is impressive. Being by myself, i wrestle "a bit" with the adhesive template.... i just took my time (and all of my reserve of "zen" attitude) to position it. Install is not "perfect", as in my haste, I cut the leading edge of the louvers, okay'ish but it c(sh)ould have been better. I thought the trim was going all around all the edges when it's supposed to go around 3 sides out of 4, (the front being uncovered). Well it's good enough for a track-car, not so for a street/show car. That said, it can be corrected by cutting 1.5mm in front of the 90° 1st blade and install the trim that i have left (should be juuust enough left). |
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