VICS operation - how to add
 

I'm currently tuning a 97 motor with a 99 head. He used to have a BEGI IM with 70mm TB, but removed it to try to pass emissions and reinstall EGR and run the stock computer with the turbo wired open, but then just registered the car in an area without emissions.

We've talked about swapping to another IM like a squaretop, but then I noticed he had installed a 99 IM, not his stock 97.

So he has the VICS butterflies, and I'd like to be able to activate them and take advantage of the system at least.

I don't have much experience with the setup, what does it all entail? Right now the actuator is just open to atmosphere, so that should mean they are allowing better top-end, but It's suffering in low/mid because of it.

What all else do I need besides the solenoid to allow operation so I can price out parts to see if it's worth it. Is that it plus a check valve or is there a vacuum chamber as well? and who wants to give me their spare parts?

thanks bros.

nothing special. vacuum line with a solenoid routed to the can on the mani
have it switch open at 5400 or 5600 with your massivesplooge wizardry

That's easy enough. I think i'll work on adding it.

But I'm assuming I'll need a check valve or sorts too since you need vacuum to keep them open, and I should be powering them below 5200 and deactived after?

I guess I could look this all up, but I want you guys to hold my hand like a noob.

Wait vac opens them? Mine are spring loaded to be open. I thought vac closed them when you energized the noid. Mine's not currently connected because I dont have the connector for the noid and I need to steal an I/O on the aem for it since I'm out of I/Os.

closes/opens; whatevers. you need vacuum to do the opposite of whatever is happening without it.

:brain:


I have a plethora of spare outputs still available. You wanna know how noob I am? I thought the 96-97 had a knock sensor, so I got the knock module all setup and then when I was trying to find where the knock sensor is on the harness, I faceplamed like a bitch.

:laugh:

Pre-99's use honey badgers instead of knock sensors.

check the back of the manifold - the check valve and vacuum lines may still be attached. If they're not still attached, you've probably got a vacuum leak.

there's a "built in vacuum reservoir" inside of the mani, which may be nothing more than just the lines / internal piping, but it is effective at storing enough vacuum behind the check valve to close the solenoid 2 or 3 times, this means boost doesn't impair function.

Other than that, you simply need the electronic solenoid and the actuator, which, again, could still possibly be attached to the manifold.

I didn't notice the solenoid, but the actuator is there for sure. I kinda remember the vacuum reservior being built in now that I think about it.

I'll do a little poking around at lunch today to see what I can find and maybe try to get this done over the weekend. I think I have a spare solenoid I could use, if not ill try to find something local, since it's just an on/off and not PWM.

Oh, I could just use the purge solenoid and only have to really just rework the vacuum lines and add a wire to the MS harness. EZPZ.

ok here's what I found:

there is this usless solenoid attached -

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1366215122

It's connected to the manifold in two spots, one right by the actuator as seen in the pic, then to the nipple just behind the TB on top.

looks like it goes back to OEM wiring; unsure what that would be for on a 96-97.

Tee'd off it is a check valve:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1366215122

this goes back to the pruge solenoid, then out to the canister.


there's also two solenoids that drive the EGR here that are useless:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1366215122


so really, it looks like I have all I need to hook it up easily, it's just a matter of plumbing it correctly. I guess I need to look at the 99 FSM and review the plumbing and see if I cant make this happen tonight.

That noid in the first picture doesnt look like a vics noid, the vics noid is brown.

yeah, i dunno what it's for without looking at the wiring diagrams, and it's in a factory plug. I have no experience with stuff past 93, so who knows. but it's usless and I should be able to use one of the three solenoids present.

here's the 96-97 system, unsure what it is:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1366216149
Looks like it's the PRC solenoid and the "check valve" is actually the pressure regulator. I need to rework his vacuum routing regardless it seems.

no it cant be the fuel regulator, duh...i dunno, must be a three way check valve.

okay, looking at the 99 FSM.

do i have this straight:

basically, there's a port on the radiator side of the IM on runner #1, that connects to a check valve, then back to the middle of the IM to the under the top half, then another port next to that goes to the solenoid then to the actuator.

?

those 3 solenoids are:

fuel tank (evap) purge solenoid
egr vent solenoid
egr vacuum solenoid

okay I can see the line with the check valve is still attached, so I'll pull the upper tonight and hook it up to work using the PRC solenoid and win at life.

the line comes out of the center of the intake manifold, then through the check valve, and back into the intake manifold near runner 1 - the intake manifold contains an area here which is simply used as a sort of "vacuum accumulator", then you have a short line that comes out of the vacuum accumulator which goes to the solenoid, and finally the solenoid when activated, applies vacuum to the actuator, and when unactivated, applies atmospheric to the actuator

Wait, that line that goes across the runners near the fuel rail from runner 3 to 1 where the is a t nipple is for the vics? Uh oh mine isnt plumbed correctly.

thank you. the diagrams in the 99-00 FSM suck balls compoared to the 90-97 ones.

I have enough to go on to make this happen tonight.

Can someone just point out which nipple to use for the VICS activation behind the check valve, it's not apparent to me and the FSM isn't much help???


Check valve in place, going from #3 to #1:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1366233919


Vacuum port A went to B (see next picture):

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1366233919

Vacuum port C went to the FPR
Vacuum port C goes to A (see previous):

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1366233919


Vacuum Port D went to the EGR solenoids sensor things
Vacuum Port E went to the EGR valve
Vacuum port F went to brake booster
Vacuum port G went to PCV:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1366233919




Maybe I'm missing something here????

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...CS1_Page_1.jpg

whoops, looks like I got you turned around....

The flow of vacuum starts along the first runner, runs through the check valve towards the third runner, then goes into the vacuum canister, out the vacuum canister and through ***a vaccuum nipple which points straight down between the bottom of the third and fourth runners*** which runs to your solenoid, and then back across the front of the manifold to the actuator

okay, is this it?


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1366234558

the open port here in abe's pic?

I'm gonna be at our shop in abuot 30 min if you still need whatever pics just text me and I'll snap some of the 99 car

Here's the culprit
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1366234853

The Solenoid is hanging off the left top in this pic, and the hose connections are clearly visible

Thats how mine is I believe.

I'm good. all plumbed back up.

The freaking BOV was on that port, and that was the next thing to fix, as it only fluttered. Now it's working again.

the one issue I foresee is that the PRC solenoid is normally open, so I'll be leaving it depowered and then powered at 5250 or whatever. when the solenoid switches, how that does the vacuum release? or do I need to find a different solenoid that's normally closed?

i hate thinking about these things, especially when I'm hungry and need to clean up for dinner.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1366237581

When the solenoid is activated, at low RPM, it is open, and connects the vacuum source to the actuator.

When the solenoid is deactivated, at high RPM, it blocks the vacuum source and vents the actuator line to atmosphere.

Also, I suspect that if you have a solenoid that is normally closed, and you want it normally open, just switch the signal source and the atmospheric source, and vice versa

Brain I have an OEM solenoid kicking around if you want it. I just bought a 99-00 mani and its sitting on my livingroom floor. If you need any more pics or any parts let me know.

Seems like you have it figured out though.

I think I'm good, totally forgot about it being a three-way with a vent. So I just need to make sure the way I hook it up that vacuum will pull the butterflies closed below 5200 and then when i switch the solenoid to close, it exhausts the vacuum to atmosphere between the actuator and solenoid.

I have it hooked up, and it should work, I just haven't a chance to pull the MS back out and update the harness with an extra output.

I feel a bit of a bump in butt-dyno tq in the mid right now, so that's good, I'm not ready to pull to redline on this tune yet, so no loss for now. I'm happy I killed two birds with one stone and got the bov fixed at the same time.

I need to adjust his throttle cable next and various other little things like fix his silly slow windows.

I have a line coming from (I believe) the back runner that goes through a check valve and then is plugged into the solenoid. The solenoid is a 3-port solenoid with a plastic cover covering the third port, it should use the third port when the VICS should shut off to clear the vacuum. It's the black thing on the right side, though really any 3port solenoid will work.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1366312341

I mounted the solenoid where the hose attachment and bolt are attached (near runner 1) right under the throttle bracket. I use the hydra to control it, but there are other options.

Edit: Just saw he got it figured out.

thanks bro, I figured it out. I just need to add the output to MS. The VICs is getting pulled open right now with vacuum, the mid range definitely has a bump in tq. Once I get it switching correctly I'll start doing boosted pulls and really tune this thing up.

I'm glad I pulled the upper though, because the butterflies were pretty much locked closed and i really had to work them and clean them to be able to operate with the actuator alone and not with intervention.

Just trying to make use of the system since he had it and I have free range over the car for another week. He had me upgrade his MS2 parallel to MS3x standalone and I've been fixing a lot of odds and ends (like a kinked idle valve tube) with his setup to make it full of win.


this is how the MS install looks right now, you can see I just unplugged the stock ECU and viola, standalone:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1366313203


I need to look through my box of crap to see if I have a pipe to replace the MAF with now:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1366313203

It's working. I pulled the vent cap on the PRC valve and moved it to be plumbed like the pictures above and it works just as intended. Even setup the same in the software for activation.

One thing, I think because it was unused for so long is that the actuator struggles to open the valves back up once vacuum is applied, I'm sure after more usage and boost they loosen up, I had cleaned gunk off them when I had the upper off and at first it actually took effort to move them, so I'm hoping they actually work and this wasnt a waste of time :)

subscribed

Thread is pretty much over at this point.

I do that so I can just find it by looking up the "thread you posted in" instead of searching it :party:

I have a 99 IM. I'm hoping to do this over the summer. :)

all it took me was 1 extra wire in the MS harness for an output and reworking some vacuum lines.

Did you wired it to one of the open outputs? (sometimes used for shift light...) or was it somewhere else?

I used one of the 4 extra injectors outputs available on his MS3.

That's pretty sweet that it's just one wire and a solenoid. You should include it with all your MS builds for anyone who even mentions 99 or 00 blocks. That would have saved me the $40 I spent on an RPM switch.

I no has MS3. I have the MS2 you built me :makeout:... there's two extra outputs on that board, right?

probably, but an output circuit would have to be built to run it.

What would the circuit need?

EDIT: quick search found this

http://www.diyautotune.com/diypnp/ap...0-18bp-mt.html

relay control circuit
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...ed-vics-32509/

Thanks! :bigtu: I have an EBC laying around somewhere.

use the charcoal purge solenoid or the EGR solenoid.

I might be late to the :party: but I was searching through pics from my build thread and this is the best pic I have of the inner side of the mani. That's the check valve right there i think?

Hope it helps?
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1366762633

yeah, I had that in place. I have it running perfectly. was stupid easy.

I know this is an old thread but I am working on installing the VICS but using race capture to run it instead of a RPM switch or megasquirt (still using factory 1.6 ecu). We have the script in the RCP correct and the wiring to the relay correct, However I dont think we wired the solenoid correctly. Can you guys tell me what the pinout of the solenoid is? I followed this thread to get the vacuum properly hooked up. Now just checking the wiring.