Welding aluminum
06-04-2009, 11:57 AM
#1
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Welding aluminum
If one wished to weld an attachment onto a factory intake manifold (or more precisely, to pay someone else to do it), what factors would one need to consider when choosing the material from which to make the attachment in terms of its computability with the base material? IOW, if there is a reason to choose one aluminum compound over another (ie: 2024, 6061, 6063, etc) in terms of the strength of the weld or other related factors?
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06-04-2009, 12:34 PM
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That's nice. Doesn't really tell me what material the intake manifold is made of, or discuss welding one material to another.
So I've heard. I can lay down passable welds on mild steel with a MIG, but as I said above, I fully intend to have someone competent do the aluminum work for me.
So I've heard. I can lay down passable welds on mild steel with a MIG, but as I said above, I fully intend to have someone competent do the aluminum work for me.
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06-04-2009, 01:00 PM
#7
I'd ask your welder what he reccomends. I'd be willing to say it won't matter much what kind of aluminum you use as long as it's not an exotic grade.
If you want to be certain give BEGI a call. If I recall correctly they used a flange lopped off a factory manifold to make a intake manifold for one of the members here. I bet they would tell you what alloy material and rod they used.
If you want to be certain give BEGI a call. If I recall correctly they used a flange lopped off a factory manifold to make a intake manifold for one of the members here. I bet they would tell you what alloy material and rod they used.
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06-04-2009, 01:23 PM
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Like Fidgitk said, it shouldn't matter much. When I had my oil pan welded, the mat'l was dirty as anything (low grade, lot's of contaminants.) The manifold is likely the same mat'l, a decent welder won't have a problem. It's not typically advisable to weld different grades together, but this probably won't be a high stress area so it should be fine.
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06-04-2009, 02:11 PM
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edit: uh yeah, scotts mani.
Incidentally, welding aluminum with a MIG is very easy. The problem is in feeding the wire (and proper polarity) more than anything else. Otherwise it lays down just like regular steel.
Incidentally, welding aluminum with a MIG is very easy. The problem is in feeding the wire (and proper polarity) more than anything else. Otherwise it lays down just like regular steel.
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06-04-2009, 02:16 PM
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If you choose incorrectly, you will create a battery (been there). Some aluminum alloys are far more noble than others and the less noble will erode electrons at a serious rate, especially if you are using tap water instead of distilled water to mix with the ethylene glycol in your radiator (a no no).
After WWII quite a few new aluminum boat manufacturers popped up to take advantage of the new skills that so many workers had acquired while working on aircraft assembly lines. What many of them didn't understand was the differences between the alloys of aluminum. Many aluminum boats were lost shortly after being introduced to salty or brackish water. The aluminum panels were undergoing a reaction with the dissimilar alloy rivets and eroding the rivets right out of their holes. This occurred in freshwater as well, but much more slowly, but still caused dramatic structural failures.
Ain't science neat?
After WWII quite a few new aluminum boat manufacturers popped up to take advantage of the new skills that so many workers had acquired while working on aircraft assembly lines. What many of them didn't understand was the differences between the alloys of aluminum. Many aluminum boats were lost shortly after being introduced to salty or brackish water. The aluminum panels were undergoing a reaction with the dissimilar alloy rivets and eroding the rivets right out of their holes. This occurred in freshwater as well, but much more slowly, but still caused dramatic structural failures.
Ain't science neat?
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06-04-2009, 02:50 PM
#11
If you choose incorrectly, you will create a battery (been there). Some aluminum alloys are far more noble than others and the less noble will erode electrons at a serious rate, especially if you are using tap water instead of distilled water to mix with the ethylene glycol in your radiator (a no no).
After WWII quite a few new aluminum boat manufacturers popped up to take advantage of the new skills that so many workers had acquired while working on aircraft assembly lines. What many of them didn't understand was the differences between the alloys of aluminum. Many aluminum boats were lost shortly after being introduced to salty or brackish water. The aluminum panels were undergoing a reaction with the dissimilar alloy rivets and eroding the rivets right out of their holes. This occurred in freshwater as well, but much more slowly, but still caused dramatic structural failures.
Ain't science neat?
After WWII quite a few new aluminum boat manufacturers popped up to take advantage of the new skills that so many workers had acquired while working on aircraft assembly lines. What many of them didn't understand was the differences between the alloys of aluminum. Many aluminum boats were lost shortly after being introduced to salty or brackish water. The aluminum panels were undergoing a reaction with the dissimilar alloy rivets and eroding the rivets right out of their holes. This occurred in freshwater as well, but much more slowly, but still caused dramatic structural failures.
Ain't science neat?
but i would talk to begi or flyin miata like they said above. i know fm welded bungs on the old link piggy back setups for the 99-00 miatas. but i would guess 6061 would be the one.
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06-04-2009, 03:35 PM
#12
My Millermatic 140 is a MIG.... I bought a spool gun kit for it so I could weld aluminum, it comes with a switch so you can change polarity easily. Speed and voltage are still user friendly and easily changed.
The problem w/ welding aluminum is contaminants. Aluminum has to be virtually spotless to get a decent weld on it w/ a MIG. It's likewise virtually IMPOSSIBLE to make aluminum THAT clean. Recommended to me was the use of a stainless steel cup brush, dedicated and used solely for cleaning aluminum prior to welding. I found that it doesn't work worth a ****, and the "low speed cleaning" recommendation doesn't work either.
I now use an 80 grit "flapper wheel" on a 4" angle grinder spinning 10,000 RPM to clean my butt joints before welding, and run 100% argon at 30 CFH. Anything other than this combination and I'm puddling up slag and my welds look like atomic bird poo, and have zero strength.
Now... with all that being said, I would probably have more success if I weren't using a 110v welder.
PS: I even tried backpurging the aluminum intercooler pipes I fabbed and it didn't help in the least.
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06-04-2009, 06:10 PM
#18
Really, it is going to likely be 6061 or 6063 for extrusion grade (tubing) aluminum. 6063 is "architectual" grade, easier to extrude, most of your complex shapes and cross sections (like screen door molding, window molding, etc) will be 6063, but not structurally as strong. That isn't relevant in this application and either will work and weld the same.
2024 and 7075 are going to be harder and bit stronger but 3x the cost per foot with no benefit in this application.
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06-04-2009, 06:23 PM
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What is not generally known is that moderators have the ability to insert avatars larger than the 150px limitation imposed upon everyone else. Scott's new avatar will push his messages all the way off the damn screen.
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06-04-2009, 06:37 PM
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An intake manifold doesn't have to worry about constant contact with water which has a funny knack for conducting electrical current.
Do what you wish, but I'm not throwing that out there to hurt what you are doing, but to help.
Two words: anode, cathode.
Do what you wish, but I'm not throwing that out there to hurt what you are doing, but to help.
Two words: anode, cathode.
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