Well, Turbonetics told me to fuk myself
 

Many of you read my previous thread about turbo failure.

Well, turbo netics stood by their product 1 time, not the 2nd. So fuk them.

Anyway, looking at a gt2871r 472560-15

I want my dyno to look like it does now, better spool would be nice, but definitely want the same TQ/hp.

Thing is, I need a turbo that wont shit itself from shaft speed.

Running up to 20psi is no issue..

Opinions please..

Thanks for your help

PS- Turbonetics suck ass..

Try these guys
About_Billet.ews | www.billetturbochargers.com
their design is supposed to support higher shaft speeds and be more durable-although I've never used their turbos

I know that Turbonetics supported the South African Apartheid and kick puppies.

Borgwarner is where it's at...So i've heard at least.

not sure if you are interested but i may have a BW s200 should flow around 55lbs make you enough power. read upon it rather good turbos for the money compared to gt30xxr

I have that exact turbo, search my username for dyno results. 250tq at 4800rpm, 280whp at 6400rpm.

he's going to bitch and moan about not getting target boost at idle.

buy new from ATP. several d00dz here can get discounts. spend the money.

I have to throw it in here. 3071. Owner says he gets to target boost 500 rpm sooner at sea level than he did in Colorado. The smaller numbers are from a bitch ass 2560.

Note this is on a 2.0 and is corrected. Shift the power a little to the left and knock off 15-20% and I bet that's how your car would perform. Pretty much even to, maybe a pinch more, than where you were.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/uploaded/i...0vs%203071.jpg

please, recommend a 450whp turbo when the guy only wants 350whp and his emphasis is on spool.

I was looking at your thread. That was at 14psi correct?
I want to see 300tq on a mustang. think 20psi will do that..

Hustler knows me all too well at this point. My issue isnt reaching power goals. Thats easy. Its when there is power.
My last dyno plot was fine. I just need a turbo to hold up and do the same.


I can get the gt2871r delivered for 1k even. Is that good??


What if the gt2871r came with a .48 a/r housing? Can that even happen??


What off the shelf turbo do you folks suggest?

I will be selling the engine, engine managment, and entire turbo set up in december

Way to look at the data, then say something really fucking stupid.

No fighting guys.

I just fear the 3071 because I only have a 1.8l

If it was a 2.0 or a 2.4 I would be all over the idea..

I am being told I can get a gt2871r with a .48 a/r on the hot side. That sounds good..

I thought you were running a 1.9.

I've been looking at T2 trims, but everything I see the 3071 gives up NOTHING to the 2871 and makes more power everywhere.

Keep in mind that chart is 2560 vs 3071. Note the very minimal difference in low end torque and then look what happens up top.

I'd love to hear you explain this. He wants low 300whp, and his emphasis is on spool, so you recommended a 30R - and I'm the stupid one?


If by "good" you mean like "250whp MAX with horrible spool". You want a .64 at minimum. I'd actually give some serious thought to a .86 2860RS - a little more response and low-end than the 2871, and probably a better match if your endgame goal is 300wtq on a Mustang.

Makes sense Sav

This sucks. I just wish that turbo would hold up..

so you have this 2871
TurboByGarrett.com - Catalog

and this one
TurboByGarrett.com - Catalog

what about that smaller trim compressor wheel?? with a .64

Would that smaller trim help much?? compressor map looks like its right there for me. But will it spool quicker with a smaller inducer?

I doubt he'll like that:
http://i38.tinypic.com/e8l755.png
He doesn't have a super-manifold either, so it will spin up later. He needs a custom job and he'll be happy. I say tiny AR on both housings, crazy-aggressive wheels, big EWG. He can make 300whp at 16-18psi though.

So big hustler, what do you think about that 2nd link to the smaller 2871r??

Compressor map looks decent.

Lots of interesting reading.

Also, if you remember Andy Floyd, he ran a 3271 on a 1.9, and hit 300whp and 270wtq on a mustang. Target boost of 16 psi was achieved at 4700 rpm.

I think 300whp is the ceiling for the .86 tater. The gt2860rs and the 2871 have the same hot side.

I made similar #'s and hit 16psi at 4200rpm on begi's cast manifold on a dynodynamics box.


I don't know why the gt2860rs gets so much hate, its awesome on my car and i would not change the turbo in hindsight even on the old manifold.

Same hot side works in my benefit. It will spin the compressor quicker..

The 2 different compressor trims are my question now for the 2871.

The one map is very different than the other. I am wondering if the 48 trim spool faster.


Ben, thanks for all the solid posts bro..

So what if i jack that tater up to 20 psi on my ride??should be close to 300tq

yes, but I think that if you want 300whp on a real dyno you should get the 2871 or something else. 20psi/300whp is at the top of efficiency in this turbo. Then again, I may be there now at significantly less power than before with the new hot-parts.

I want 300+rwtq on the mustang again. My car is simply an animal when I have 310/313...

Can the dam 2671r with the .64 hot side do this???

I forgot to inform everyone why I am rushing this so much. I have to have a decision in the morning.

I have a Pro Am event on the 16th. I need this car dyno'd and completely up to Formula Drift Spec. I am close, but there is still a decent amount of time for preperation. After I have the turbo it has to go on. See what other shit I have to change. Then get it tuned. So alot of shit for me..

Thats where I am at right now. I didnt plan on a 2nd turbo shitting out..

Call a garrett engineer. I'm no engineer, but I really think you want a custom turbo with aggressive wheels and tiny housings.

2871 .64 is probably the simplest route to "tiny housings and aggressive wheels". but in this case I wouldn't call the housings tiny. this is a sub 2.0L motor remember.

I'm perfectly happy with my 2876 .64's ability to spool and have no question that it can produce 300 rwhp on a well tuned motor probably somewhere around 15 psi. sadly I have a high compression motor with a compromised tune so I will just wait for the next dyno day quietly now.

so wait the warranty does not cover it? that sounds illegal to me.. you sign a warranty and they dont want to take care of their bs

I think we all agree your tater is undersized for this mission. The 2871 is the next pop up as it shares hot size but takes the compressor to a bigger, newer gen wheel.

I fear the hotside is restrictive, and I think Jeremy's comments and observations are probably accurate. His statements were made after returning home from a paid trip to california where he tuned a 2871 car. We have seen some oddball turbos that don't live up fully to their compressor map potential, and the 2871 may be one of them. The 3071 appears to be a better combination of wheels.

I think Andy Floyd showed this to us a few years ago, but no one paid attention to him, because he did it so goofy. If you recall, he had a 93 chassis with a cheap built 95 motor. The turbo was a 3271. His engine management consisted of the stock 93 electronics + a high pressure fuel pump + a pressure regulator + 330 injectors + a bipes. Sumbitch made 300 whp on a mustang, and his motor ran for years.

CCCPull had a similar build in a NB, but I think he had a pissing match with Philip and was booted.

Can you imagine how much more power and better spool Andy would have made if he had a 99 head with o/s valves? With solid TEC engine management? With bad ass TEC ignition? With just a few psi more boost?

I think we need to spend more time looking at builds like what Andy, CCC, and Eliminator are doing. They are showing us that using small turbos is a mistake.

dude you are drifting i would get the 3071 and be done with it. I doubt the 28xx series can support the torque you want and besides on the case of spool when you drift you can keep the motor above 4k anyway so with alil practice you should be good to go. But im partial to antiquated DSM turbos so i might just be talking out of my ass here.

Turns, you need to remember that a .48 a/r on a Garrett turbo is much different than a .48 a/r on a T3. I think in order to match what you had before you will want a 2871 w/ a .64 a/r.

He's using a T3 flanged turbo....He is talking specifically about a 2871R with a T3 0.48ar housing. You can get them from ATP. 2+2=4

Jeff, do this. And don't forget to mention that you're a serious drifter running high level events so they don't think you're a drifttard.


I'm surprised I haven't seen any news reports about turbonetics employees with their faces punched in

I cant egt a phone number to a garrett tech. So far i have heard they dont want tot alk to anyone.
They want you talking to their distributors. ATP wont talk to you about turbo sizing on the phone for some bullshit reason.

At this point I am thinking of just getting a 2871 with a .62 a/r and just spinning it at 20psi and see what happens.

I dont have time to get a custom jobber

They covered it once, but not now.. Fuck them..

Yeah, that is a bit of a misconception, you are not always over 4k. I have discussed that here before. Even though I understand it looks like a big hi rpm burnout, it is much more involved and rpms do fluctuate alot.


I am trying to walk a better path. if this were a few years ago there would be a shit ton of china charger housing thrown through their shit box office windows..

You could try to PM JKav. He is a Garret Turbo Systems engineer after all.

and isn't he the father of the potato to boot?

so the warranty ends after they cover it once? something seems fishy here man. I wonder if you have a case for court.

call tial or a tial retailer. I bet you could call Twins Turbo and they'll talk to you, especially if you order a turbo through them. You can also try AMS, FP, or Alamo if you speak with Brice.

Thank you everyone.

i really appreciate all of your input. I will let you know what happens..

They aren't showing us anything, Ben. 16psi at 4700rpm is fucking pathetic. Hustler is making the same power at the same boost, only his turbo spools over a thousand RPM sooner.

It's obvious you didn't read any of the posts I wrote, so let me make this very simple.

This is a comparison between your car and H-F's. They are roughly similar in execution, but you went with a 2871 and he went with an "oversized and laggy" 3076.

Note he makes more power at every RPM.


Attachment 203292

Attachment 203293



Who gives a fuck if it take a little longer to make equal MAP on a gauge, if you're making more power per PSI.

Incidentally, Andy said he got 16 psi at 4300 rpm. On his stock computer, with a weaksause built engine. 330 cc injectors @ 120 psi and a bipes. Andy didn't have a nice NB head. His block was a 95 with forged pistons and stock GTX (or GTR dont remember) rods. No fancy machine work. Tell me that Jeff's motor wouldn't spin that turbo up 500 rpm sooner, if not more.

Ben, have you ever actually driven a big turboed car on a track? My 2871R makes more power and torque than my 2554R did from 3000rpm up - it doesn't make the 2871R any less difficult to drive. The 2554R feels like an OEM turbo, plant your foot and go IMMEDIATELY, where the 2871R takes that little bit of time - even if it's only a second or so - to wind up and kick you in the rump. You can whine and brag about how your HUGE turbos make more power everywhere, but all I see from HF's chart is a torque curve that slopes up in a big way, which makes for a car that is peaky and nasty to drive - end of story. If we both snap the throttle open on a dyno, and you make more torque at an earlier RPM, that's great - but do you honestly believe that if we jump on the highway at 4000rpm and snap the throttles open at the same time, that 3076 is going to wind up and pull sooner than a 2860 or a 2871?

Yeah ben if you look at the chart cuting it off at 4k rpm savs turbo makes more torque considerably more torque. Sure after 5k he is a sitting duck but outside of a drag strip the difference in torque makes the smaller turbo faster and just all around more effecient, for raod and general performance driving where you cant just go from one redline to the next progressivly up the gears. At 3k rpm the dif is like 40 lb/ft that is nothing to sneeze at.

At 4000rpm I would believe it.

You know when I compared those charts, I looked at HP and not torque. There must be something funny about one of those charts, I'm assuming HF's because he has more HP than you at 3k... but then he has less torque.

No, I think the 3076 is too big. But you didn't give any attention to Andy Floyd's 3271, which is a much better illustration. Remember Andy had a ghetto engine and no management.

I think the most interesting data is in Andy Floyd's dyno and in the FM 2560 vs 3071 plot. Giving up avg 10 ftlb below 4k rpm to gain avg 75 ftlb everywhere over 4k seems like a good idea to me.

Sav's

Attachment 203291

Andy Floyd's 3271
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/att...6129-16psi.jpg

http://www.flyinmiata.com/uploaded/i...0vs%203071.jpg

2871r on my car this past weekend.
 

OK, so i got the 2871R
Spools about the same.

I have a very quick tune going though. basically nothing was changed but the af to make it safe for this past weekend's event.
I am def down on power and tq.

I finished 2nd Saturday so I get to go to the nationals.

Anyway, tonight I will post the dyno with the 1 hour tune on it.

i think I have some solid room for improvement with timing and maybe some more boost. I def think we can get it to spool a bit faster..

Once that happens I will post that too