Finally got me a low boost baseline dyno plot - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 02-12-2011, 02:44 AM   #1
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Default Finally got me a low boost baseline dyno plot

You know the saying "EVERYTHING THAT CAN GO WRONG WILL?"
We'll I have experienced it 1st hand today. Well, a mild version of it anyhow.

I can't say I didn't enjoy it though and there are definitely things that I kept neglecting with my tune that I now have to work on meticulously before I go again for more dyno-tuning.

My car:
00 nb
built bottom end
stock head
e85
godspeed 3076 internally gated
fmic
3" exhaust
14psi target boost




This is just a picture of the plot, the shop owner will email me the REAL plot and hopefully it will be in rpm instead of MPH

Also got a couple crappy cell phone vids lol.
I'll upload them later.


PROBLEMS
-my MAT correction table is ****. On the street the car runs great, and MAT is around 60-70. It was 96+ During the dyno pulls and car was running 10.2 afr in boost
-boost is definitely too low. I need to turn it up to 18psi for sure. while it creeps to 16 for 500 rpm (from 5500-6000) before and after its 14. Turbo is definitely not in its efficiency range at all, and felt boat loads faster when I actually had it at 17-18psi.
-The DYNO guy forgot to put a fan in front of the car so there was no airflow to the fmic/intake


So yeah, enough with the excuses, I am at 260/240.
In a way kinda happy that despite the bullshit I still managed 260, and am sure once my fueling is worked out and with 18psi or more I'll be able to break 300whp. This is just a baseline and before next dyno day I'm addressing all these issues.

Feel free to critique/criticize/laugh at/etc. LOL

Last edited by 18psi; 02-12-2011 at 03:14 AM.
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Old 02-12-2011, 09:42 AM   #2
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I've heard of lamer problems on the dyno before. I run 10.5:1 @ 17psi but I am a ***** and I am also not running e85.

Regarding your FMIC, How were your AITs?

And, did you put any timing on it?

And fix your damn wastegate signal source! Before the TB not after!
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Old 02-12-2011, 09:43 AM   #3
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Also congratulations on finally dynoing!
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:40 AM   #4
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i wondered since I saw the screenshot in the autotune thread why your MAT curve wasn't flat using the default ideal gas law tuning. the graphical curve is only to deviate from a "normal" MAT tune.
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:43 AM   #5
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yeah ok this curve:



see the title up there? "Non-Linear". basically you're adding another ~16% fuel on top of the standard MAT correction when the car is hot (8% when at normal operating temp).

So I imagine with no fan on the dyno... **** was adding fuel like mad.
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
yeah ok this curve:



see the title up there? "Non-Linear". basically you're adding another ~16% fuel on top of the standard MAT correction when the car is hot (8% when at normal operating temp).

So I imagine with no fan on the dyno... **** was adding fuel like mad.
This is done to avoid heatsoaking when idling. The ideal gas law works fine when there's good airflow, but at idle and very low load/rpm the ideal gas law undercompensates when the sensor gets heatsoak, and the non-linear corrections do not taper down when the RPMs increase, at least not on the stock 3.1.0 firmware.

Which is why in the last few days I've been tweaking the firmware, and corrected that, by reducing the non-linear corrections by 10% for every 100rpm above 1200rpm, so basically after 2100rpm you left with the ideal gas law correction only.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:11 AM   #7
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oh ****! that would be ideal!



however, the VE table above also suggests why it went rish as ****. 15% more fuel at peak load between 5K and redline?
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Old 02-12-2011, 12:09 PM   #8
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oh and if the maps only go up to 225kPa, 18 psi might not be a very good idea.

225kPa = 32.6 psi
minus atmospheric pressure: 32.6 - 14.7 = 17.9 psi of boost


Dimitris, I haven't had any issues with heatsoak at idle. But then it's been only since late fall that the MS3 has been installed. I like the idea of limiting the correction based on RPM, but it looks like for now it's adding to the richness issue.
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Old 02-12-2011, 12:35 PM   #9
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For that size turbo I would say those numbers are awesome. Basically exactly what I'm making but my turbo is definitely in its efficiency range. It'll make a shizton more at 17 or 18psi
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Old 02-12-2011, 01:12 PM   #10
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How do those numbers compare with a garrett 3076 at 14psi? Not knocking, just looking at my upgrade options.
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Old 02-12-2011, 01:27 PM   #11
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the numbers look like Newbsauces 1.6L on a real 2871 at 16psi.

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Old 02-12-2011, 01:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
oh and if the maps only go up to 225kPa, 18 psi might not be a very good idea.

225kPa = 32.6 psi
minus atmospheric pressure: 32.6 - 14.7 = 17.9 psi of boost


Dimitris, I haven't had any issues with heatsoak at idle. But then it's been only since late fall that the MS3 has been installed. I like the idea of limiting the correction based on RPM, but it looks like for now it's adding to the richness issue.
The map I sent him was up to 250kPa so he may have changed that himself.

As for the heatsoak, the way your I/C piping is done plays an important role. I've had several cars that have stainless piping and those tend to heatsoak A LOT in traffic.
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Old 02-12-2011, 03:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post
How do those numbers compare with a garrett 3076 at 14psi? Not knocking, just looking at my upgrade options.
A real GT3076 @ 14psi should see 300hp.
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Old 02-12-2011, 03:39 PM   #14
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Thanx dustin and fae.

y8s and reverant,
Yes I changed it to 225 myself because I never planned to run 250 at the time. Now that I am planning on doing it, I'm definitely going to change it back. Definitely not stupid enough to run 18psi on that scaling

And yes the car heatsoaks like a bitch. With the MAT table flat every time I hot-restart it after running it and then letting it sit for a little while my idle afr is something ridiculous like 17:1 and sometimes even leaner than that. With that MAT table it at least doesn't get AS bad and doesn't go past 15:1 at idle when hot.

It was REALLY hot in the shop, like 80+ I wanna say. The guy didn't put the fan in front of the car, and before I made my 1st run I glanced at my MAT and it read 96*.
On the street before and after the dyno I was seeing 65-72 the whole way, and the car was hitting PERFECT afr on the freeway on the way there: 11.5 in boost.

Dimitris,
will you be sharing this firmware update you're talking about? If I figured out how to make the car not apply that MAT correction everywhere and do it only at idle that would be AWESOME. Pretty much would solve that problem altogether.


Brain,
You're saying my fuel map sucks and dumps a ton more fuel after 5k? On the road the afr stays perfect at 11.5. Here are my most current tables (what I used at the dyno)


But I'll definitely try to make it better. Hopefully with your guys' help and a little more tuning I can hit the 300whp I want next dyno day.
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Old 02-12-2011, 03:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
The map I sent him was up to 250kPa so he may have changed that himself.

As for the heatsoak, the way your I/C piping is done plays an important role. I've had several cars that have stainless piping and those tend to heatsoak A LOT in traffic.
My ic piping is 2.5" aluminum. The AIT sensor is after the intercooler before the throttle body:


You can see it a couple inches before the TB coupler.
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Old 02-12-2011, 04:26 PM   #16
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what air filter is that? I'm looking for a smaller one that will fit that location.
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Old 02-12-2011, 04:58 PM   #17
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Here is one of the logs:




Notice how ridiculously hot the MAT is
Also look at the pathetically low afrs.
Definitely have to get this squared away.
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Old 02-12-2011, 05:14 PM   #18
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If there was a fan on the intercooler in the first place the high MAT's and extra fuel wouldn't have even been a problem, IMO. Not a bad first pull given the circumstances, can't wait to see what it does next time.
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Old 02-12-2011, 06:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Dimitris,
will you be sharing this firmware update you're talking about? If I figured out how to make the car not apply that MAT correction everywhere and do it only at idle that would be AWESOME. Pretty much would solve that problem altogether.
That's the plan.
I do need to test it thoroughly on the street first.
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Old 02-12-2011, 08:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
That's the plan.
I do need to test it thoroughly on the street first.
Thank you.
I think if this works out and eliminates the heatsoak these units we got from you will be FLAWLESS
I am really happy I switched over from the Adaptronic and still thankful to you and Brain for putting these together for us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdexta View Post
If there was a fan on the intercooler in the first place the high MAT's and extra fuel wouldn't have even been a problem, IMO. Not a bad first pull given the circumstances, can't wait to see what it does next time.
Yeah he definitely goofed on that one.
And I agree: despite not reaching my power goals all the issues are stuff that I can definitely work out, nothing too hard, and the car feels AMAZING. So smooth, power/torque exactly where I want it, and I'm overall pleased.

It can only get better from here
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