The ITB FE3 Dyno
 

Motor is mostly stock with just a few bolt ons, track car so doesn't need crazy power just has to work all time.

JDM FE-DOHC (technically the fe3 is a kia motor, mine is an actual mazda motor)
FE3 matching cams, 9.1mm lift ish 240 duration, fairly tame
diy 45mm itbs w/ported intake manifold, off a 2005 GSXR 1000
4-2-1 ss header
2.5" ss exhaust
mspnp

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1348543259

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPUQv...ature=youtu.be

Fucked if I can remember how to embed it, w.e

Picked up 5whp with some timing addition, leaned out the top end a bit, nothing to crazy.

Only thing Im curious about is the torque falling off so fast, cam limited maybe?

Hmmm, not half bad for a stock motor. Any vids of this thing doing work?

Dyno vid is uploading, if u search youtube for itb fe3 i have a few up

Me too. Curves look much like my boosted FE dyno. And like a boosted 99 that was transformed with a larger throttle body and intake manifold plenum. Of course that doesn't apply here. :dunno: What's your ign map look like?

Moved this to the dyno section.

Mandrel bends on that 2.5" exhaust?

Yup exhaust is mandrels, very free flowing, which accounts for all the noise it makes lol

We played with the timing on the dyno and torque was by and large unaffected up top. I'm 30-34deg on the top end

Get off MS1 and go sequential EV14.

this is how mods/admins are born.

Why's that? I doubt it will make any more power, then its just a waste of money.

I'll be doing a mildly built head this winter with cams and valvetrain then ill redyno it to see if my torque still drops off so quickly. I'm thinking the cams are choking it out as the motor was only ever rated for 140bhp and I'm making more than that at the wheels, in a rwd car non the less

Have you adjusted cam timing? I bet you can get a nice HP bump with some intake retard.

Stock cam gears and timing, adjustables are on the way :-)

To be honest, and don't take this the wrong way, but I'm actually thinking this same thing about this swap when looking at that plot: why even do it if you're keeping it n/a?

IIRC the 2L is good for spooling a larger turbo faster. the rods in the fe3 are super stout letting people get away with tons of power on stock bottom end. Both those are advantages for boost. Not n/a.

N/a that plot looks kinda similar to a bp4w/bp6z with bolt ons: about the same power and not much more torque.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong of course.
(and I don't mean this in a disrespectful way)

The plan was always to boost it but I was way to busy this year with work and I was convinced to keep it n/a for reliability.

The motor is definitely suited more towards boost but for the price of the motor and all the parts being around $1000 I'm pretty happy with the results.

No one had done this setup before so I figured I'd try it out and see how it worked.

I have a fresh holset turbo begging to go on but ill have to look at classing before I decide

Ahhh, that makes so much more sense.

Carry on then:)

Sounds brilliant.
The torque drop off could be anything… Intake manifold? Exhaust manifold? Cams? General design-ness? Probably a combination of everything. Still sounds awesome though.

Haha thanks! It's extremely loud but the itbs sound amazing at the top end when you can hear them

I'm thinking cams or eBay header, might need bigger primaries

Not sure on the bigger primaries, but you may well know more about such things than I do. Shortening the secondaries should, in theory, push the torque curve further up the rev range. And that's about all I know.

Well it is a bp header so it's slightly smaller than what would be ideal for a 2L

problem is, they dont seem to be that amazing for top-end when you look at your dyno plot

With adjustable gears you should gain 5-10whp and eliminate that big HP dive at the end. Nothing great in the big scheme of things but should make for a fun NA motor. Nice transplant!

if only it was k20.....you would be making over twice the hp/tq with this setup

That intake cam gear was huge in my car. Totally changed the attitude of the engine, I don't have dyno to back this up.

If only it was an lsx it would make twice the power of a k20...

Problem is the whole swap is 5x the cost of this swap after all the details.

A usdm k20 with just itbs and a header wont make enough to be worth the work.

lol you missed his joke

That I did lol

It's not an LSx or some other exotic super motor, but I still like it. Maybe some cams and timing could improve it, can't wait to see boost on it!

I think it will be great once he eventually gives in to boost:)

So my itbs don't have any velocity stacks and I wasn't to worried about it until my neon buddy showed me this thread.

www.neons.org • View topic - Runner Length Tuning...ITB style

That is alot of cheap power and a huge amount under the curve that I'm leaving on the table.

I'll copy cat this test after I do the head work to settle on a proper size stack but damn am I ever excited to try it out and see what taking full advantage of the throttles can do

So ~10" was my personal favorite.
Also short runners = le suck unless you're doing nothing but drag racing.
Too long though and you start dropping off up top.

Wasn't it already kinda discussed here too though? I'm sure its in one of the manifold threads. Basically you want something like 9" or something like that iirc

that thread is full of win :bigtu:

It really is. Glad some guys take the time and effort (and money) to do stuff like that.

da longdur da runna da more dork down dol.

I can't remember what was ideal but after some head work, cams and bigger valves I'll do the same test with the pvc then order up some proper stacks which will also have gains over the straight cut pipes.

lol so much work for such little gains in the n/a world

You should just be one of the only people to ACTUALLY boost an irtb setup instead of just blow smoke about doing it lol:giggle:

So far every single person to mention it has been completely and utterly full of poop.
(I know you didn't claim to do this, just saying lol)

After watching Emilio's Crusher I want 180whp like a motherfucker

A turbo will fuck up my classing, I'll have to jump up to play with the 300zx fiber body L28 racecars and crap like that :/

This setup keeps me with old E30 m-swaps, swapped civics and the like, things that don't blow my shit away.

I'm just breakin your balls man, do what you want. Your swap is by no means bad or half assed. :)

Besides, someone with irtb's+boost just surfaced today (see ismael's thread)

Trust me, every day is a "to turbo or not to turbo" the miata

Thank chirst I still have a turbo street car to play with

Fixed from my point of view.

That's my dilemma. My mx6 is showing its age and I debate fixing it further or planting my fe3t inside a miata.

Cant wait to look at the vids of this when I get off my phone and onto a computer. Just wanted to mention that ITB's change the design of intake runners a little because you have the runner length pre-TB and post-TB. So you have 2 variables to play with.

I've looked into it a bit and it got awful confusing, awful fast. Maybe with a bit of experimenting you can shed some light on it for us.

I read up alot on the lengths from valve to throttle plate, then throttle plate to stack tip, then plate sizing for hp compairing it with head type, valve size ect ect ect... 4-stroke Performance Tuning is a good book btw

Then, I forgot everything I had read; cut my manifold where it lined up with the throttles I had and put them on the car and drove it.

Its a good motor for the miata, if you have the means its a very straight forward swap, biggest issue is the oilpan construction.

MOTHERFUCKING NEON GUYS!!1

www.neons.org • View topic - ITB's rule the world

More ITB madness!! This time with insane head porting and more dyno pulls

Makes me want to dive further into this motor to see what I can get out of it NA (200whp NA would be fucking sweet)

We need an ITB section around here..:greddy2:

The FE3 will need some pretty good porting to make that kind of power n/a. The fact that there's no cams available for it either doesn't really help things.

That said... Go for it!!! :)

There are seldom cams available on the shelf to your liking (if you are doing it why not do it "right" at close to the same cost).
Cheap blanks help of course but welding/grinding stock ones isn't a bad option (the job can always be of questionable quality though).

Right... that's helpful if OP know how to calculate and determine all specs for the cams he's wanting. :)

He would probably see massive gains with regrinds. The cams are VERY mild on these motors.

Better atomization and less fuel on the walls means significantly more spark angle and better combustion all the way around. I've seen huge increases in output on a 1.6 that was det-limited from only switching to EV14, still running batch. There are a lot of reasons why direction injection is so awesome, and atomization/homogeneous air-fuel mixture is one of them.

Cylinder head and cam development will make a huge impact on your motor.

I can't believe you do not have stub stacks on your ITBs. They make quite a difference in velocity. I would love to see a before and after with just the stub stacks.

As for length, you do not need much. You have to account for the length of the intake, and throttle body as well.

I was lazy and too busy to bother getting proper stacks. Defiinitely would have made some decent mid range gains, no question there. I was going to test a range of lengths since a couple hours on the dyno is a ton of time to try out alot of diff set-ups, ended up leaving 30min early last session as tuning was easier and faster than I thought it would have been on the rollers.

Ugh I want to get into this motor alittle more since I think it could do 200whp with alittle compression bump and some head work but the turbo set-up is so much simplier and yields unlimited power from this block.

I haven't looked into it, I wasn't det limited on the timing, I was cramming in timing till power dipped, but being more efficient is never a bad thing, just not sure on cost vs return.

There FE3N cams so there not that mild, sure for a built motor they are weak but for a stock family sedan they are decent enough.

I'm ordering some 10.5:1 pistons so if I boost it or stay NA I have both bases covered.

Hi comp boost is the answer to all lifes problems