greddygalant

iTrader: (3)

I did some brief searching and couldn't really find much, anyone know what the record is for a BP with a stock MSM turbo strapped to it? And by stock I mean truly stock turbo, none of the upgraded ones. I'm curious to see what it is because I love the response and oem packaging of my setup and plan to improve on it this winter with rods and upgrades on both the intake and exhaust side and see what it will do with a little more boost and some timing added back in, seeing as we had to detune for the sake of the rods.

Lokiel

14psi is about the most boost you'll run on the stock turbo and even then it's pushing it, that's when the OEM manifold tends to crack and you're just pushing hot air.

210-220rwhp is around the max with the usual bolt-ons, injector upgrades and aftermarket ECU.

You don't need to upgrade your rods and pistons - you will need an aftermarket ECU since the stock ECU is crap (dead-spot between 4000 and 4500 rpm where you'll be running lean until it kicks into open-loop mode; beyond 140rwkw the OEM ECU just can't cope and your car will run "rough as guts").

curly

iTrader: (25)

See his sig, we're past 220 with loads left of tuning, 75% stock exhaust, and 12psi.

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

FM did 240-something on that really weird car a couple years back that had the Elantra tail lights.

Granted, that was on a Rototest and the turbo blew up shortly afterwards, but there you go.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

I think the highest I've seen is 235-237 but all the high plots I've seen just seem like a optimistic dyno and not really anything special.
For the most part you seem to already be at the "limit" according to the interwebz.
This is relevant to my interests, proceed

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

pretty sure a local here did 240rwhp with FM bolts on, on a dynojet.

curly

iTrader: (25)

That's what I'd figure. I can't believe we only have 15hp to pick up after tuning the timing, but I guess so. We're at 4* up top to limit torque, and only 6* at redline to keep it down.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

I'm honestly still kinda stumped over those timing numbers to be honest.
You guys sync'd the timing correctly right? Or maybe throwing a cas on the newer bp might throw things off?

I mean that's less than "locked timing", which supposedly melts stuff from being so retared.
I've seen 4* run in the midrange on a 400+ bp running a 35r snail at 25+psi, which made sense to me, but this just doesn't add up.

TNTUBA

iTrader: (1)

Ask FrankL

greddygalant

iTrader: (3)

Ill let Josh answer the timing question, however I can say that the CAS has been deleted and the car is now using the MSM cam and crank sensors. I think that at 14psi, with a proper 3 inch exhaust with a wastegate dump and a tune that actually has a bit of timing in it, I should have no issues clearing 250whp if not more.

curly

iTrader: (25)

Yes sync'd with a timing light and yes, CAS. It's now CKP and CMP from the MSM and on a MS2PNP, but we haven't dyno'd it yet, rebuilding with forged rods first.

Timing was set to fixed 10, pulley was set to read 10*. The only thing I can think of would be if we looked at the wrong mark, but that would back fire like crazy and be technically -6 degrees instead of 4, correct? Or would that be 14*?

nitrodann

I always find TDC with wire in the spark plug hole to be sure that the pulley hasnt slipped and that the marks are in fact accurate.

BTW, whatever the stock turbo MSM record is, I hold it.

Dann

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

On my '99, ther are 2 marks on the pully (typical). I set 10*BTDC with one of those marks on 10*, and one on 0*. Pretty sure that is the correct method.

greddygalant

iTrader: (3)

Car has a brand new crank pulley on, marks havent slipped

ITOzann

What standalone solution are you guys currently using to achieve your goals?

greddygalant

iTrader: (3)

the numbers posted above were achieved on a gen 1 PNP, we have since upgraded to a gen 2 pnp and hope to have the car tuned and good to go sometime this February/March

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

Back to the question of possible wrong mark used. If the wrong mark is set at 10*BTDC, then the correct mark would be at 20*BTDC. So, if you did that, then indeed, you were running 10* more than you (and your MS1) thought.

greddygalant

iTrader: (3)

I don't think our timing was off, curly would know better

18psi

iTrader: (76)

The timing thing might be legit after all.

I keep digging for more info, and here's another example of relatively low timing and similar torque/power. Though this guy is on e85

Zwoollen's build thread

230/250 on 12psi within 2 degrees through the range overall

curly

iTrader: (25)

Well, I wouldn't actually. I hate the NB dual mark thing.

But if you're referring to our pitiful timing table, we were either accurate and super conservative, or we were spot on for a safe turbo setup.

My 1.6 and a small T25 was at 20* near redline.

The MSM engine was at 6 or 16*. Either way, still conservative.