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NB2 EFR 6258 Kraken mani/dp
Real dyno, 10-11psi and 17psi.
Virtual dyno 15-16psi Car: 02 NB2 EFR 6258 T25 .64ar Kraken cast manifold / 3" dp 3" catless exhaust / big magnaflow muffler. 94 block, VVT head, Vics manifold stock 1994 (8.8-9.0cr) pistons w/new rings eBay rods w/arp bolts ACL Race bearings stock size MS3 Basic, FF640 injectors 93 octane gas. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0209a90639.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...80374b0c47.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b6aa392320.jpg |
That looks very healthy!
How much boost? |
Originally Posted by yossi126
(Post 1486967)
That looks very healthy!
How much boost? |
It's.......right there
lol Looks great btw |
Love that torque curve, or should I say plateau.
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That kraken mani magic and the 3" dp baybeee, Im so excited to get my stuff!
His new dps are made out of 2mm 316L SS. Serious shit. (Top pipe in picture compared to the old alloy on bottom) https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...26d98901b9.jpg |
Originally Posted by thumpetto007
(Post 1487194)
That kraken mani magic and the 3" dp baybeee, Im so excited to get my stuff!
His new dps are made out of 2mm 316L SS. Serious shit. (Top pipe in picture compared to the old alloy on bottom) https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...26d98901b9.jpg When did that switch happen? |
Originally Posted by thumpetto007
(Post 1487194)
That kraken mani magic and the 3" dp baybeee, Im so excited to get my stuff!
His new dps are made out of 2mm 316L SS. Serious shit. (Top pipe in picture compared to the old alloy on bottom) https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...26d98901b9.jpg i get that one is thicker, which is good, but from the pic they look the same to me. |
He updated within the past couple days. There are two dps in the pic, top one is slightly brighter metal, otherwise it looks the same from that angle.
https://www.thebalance.com/type-316-and-316l-stainless-steel-2340262 |
added real dyno pulls from todays runs.
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Sweet dude! I'm still waiting on Kraken parts.
Lets see videos! |
It's good, but a GT2860rs (disco potato) with a 0.86 rear housing can achieve that sheet.. just.
Dann |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1499615)
It's good, but a GT2860rs (disco potato) with a 0.86 rear housing can achieve that sheet.. just.
Dann 6258 not even sweating with 100 more hp to go. And it spools faster. |
No, I mean the whole graph, if that's your power graph you want a GT2860rs can do it at 18psi and have the same power at ~3000rpm.
If you're going to turn it up later, awesome. Dann |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1499618)
No, I mean the whole graph, if that's your power graph you want a GT2860rs can do it at 18psi and have the same power at ~3000rpm.
If you're going to turn it up later, awesome. Dann |
100whp@3000rpm. Ie, same outright numbers, same low rpm torque.
Dann |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1499891)
100whp@3000rpm. Ie, same outright numbers, same low rpm torque.
Dann I measure turbos by how soon i can hit 200lbs tq. my 2560 hit it at 3250 my 6258 at 3300 my 2860 with begi manifold/dp at 3800. 2860 cant touch a 6258 spool wise, response, and max output wise. |
First let me say that its a sweet build and I am not shitting on you, I just wanted to let people who read the thread know that your graph can be achieved on a 2860rs.
Looking at your VD you have 100whp@3000rpm, just like a Gt2860rs can have. You have 180whp@4000rpm, just like a Gt2860rs can have. You have 250whp@5000rpm, just like a Gt2860rs can have. etc You can do it in ftlb if you want, but it's like for like comparing HP at the same rpm also, as i have done. You probably have a bit better transient response though. And i assume you will turn it up a lot further than a Gt2860rs can go, in the future. Dann |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1499615)
It's good, but a GT2860rs (disco potato) with a 0.86 rear housing can achieve that sheet.. just.
Dann |
1 Attachment(s)
GT2860RS, .86 housing, ~15psi. BEGi log mani, separated gas 2.5" DP down to a hacked up crush bent 3" straight pipe out the back.
I think I logged it, will post a log screen shot if I can find it. note: it was a dyno day so they were just doing pulls after pulls, the date, test/file name is incorrect. Attachment 228695 |
Regardless tho, nice numbers and I bet that's a damn sexy setup under the hood!
Also, plz crank up the boost and make some use of that built motor... I'm still on a stock 174k mile block waiting for the executioner to come but he still hasn't shown up. |
Originally Posted by Mech5700
(Post 1500056)
Regardless tho, nice numbers and I bet that's a damn sexy setup under the hood!
Also, plz crank up the boost and make some use of that built motor... I'm still on a stock 174k mile block waiting for the executioner to come but he still hasn't shown up. Its a semi built motor on pump gas with factory pistons out of a 94 miata, i dont think i can turn it up much higher without getting detonation. I have not really seen any one go past mid 300 hp on pump gas. mostly E85 for >350hp. plus mechanical empathy for my 5 speed. i dont like 6 speed gearing. i normally run 15psi street ~280ish hp, and 10-11 psi 250hp wastegate only on track. |
That 2860rs-86 data is pretty much exactly what I would expect.
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is the GT2860RS really hitting that late 4500rpm? I have seen plenty of dynos where they hit much sooner than that. Great power numbers but where is the spool?
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He has a cast log and a sub-par downpipe, we do a tubular/straight mandrel 3" setup regularly and they do spool similarly to OPs sheets. Ive found that on stock NB pistons 290whp is the pump fuel limit on my dyno. 17psi/14* or something like that.
Get some flex fuel and put another 50hp in OP :) Dann |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1500065)
He has a cast log and a sub-par downpipe, we do a tubular/straight mandrel 3" setup regularly and they do spool similarly to OPs sheets. Ive found that on stock NB pistons 290whp is the pump fuel limit on my dyno. 17psi/14* or something like that.
Get some flex fuel and put another 50hp in OP :) Dann |
ooh let's play the dyno game: ca 91oct, ultra low timing and relatively low boost 6258 on a 4w. the spud aint touching this. barely any ebc duty too, you can see by how slowly the boost feeds in
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1443078169 |
100whp@3000rpm, just like a spud on a tubular with a 3" straight through on it.
Even the big GTX2867r 0.86 keeps up with the 6258 and makes big numbers, whats the 6258 record, btw? 2867r compressor map goes to 48lb/min, 6258 goes to 43lb/min. I once tried a GTX disco with the tial V band 0.59 housing and hit 1 bar at 2200rpm on a vvt. Dann |
why are we comparing whp when talking about spool? post up the plot you keep referencing, we want to see the curves
I hope it's not the one I think it is |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1500069)
100whp@3000rpm, just like a spud on a tubular with a 3" straight through on it.
Even the big GTX2867r 0.86 keeps up with the 6258 and makes big numbers, whats the 6258 record, btw? 2867r compressor map goes to 48lb/min, 6258 goes to 43lb/min. I once tried a GTX disco with the tial V band 0.59 housing and hit 1 bar at 2200rpm on a vvt. Dann |
Im serious, a stock VVT motor, boost cut set at 14psi, left the wastegate actuator vacuum hose off accidentally and could barely baby it around town.
Dann |
You're getting this with a snakey manifold though right, Dann? If so, you're comparing something shiney with a tank. The cast manifolds have proven far more durable than even well built snakey manis. I remember seeing some pretty solid dyno's of 2860's on absurdflow setups, but i remember that quite a few of them cracked.
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Originally Posted by Mech5700
(Post 1500055)
GT2860RS, .86 housing, ~15psi. BEGi log mani, separated gas 2.5" DP down to a hacked up crush bent 3" straight pipe out the back.
I think I logged it, will post a log screen shot if I can find it. note: it was a dyno day so they were just doing pulls after pulls, the date, test/file name is incorrect. https://i.imgur.com/H2LWaXNh.jpg FWIW, this was 4th gear (6 speed). Either way, the EFR is a spool-monster, we all know that... Found the log: https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ee88b36710.png OP, do you have the log from the pulls you posted? |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1500070)
why are we comparing whp when talking about spool? post up the plot you keep referencing, we want to see the curves
I hope it's not the one I think it is Here is a dyno in KW with HP added in red. It's 23hp per solid horizontal line. Absolutely dead stock NB8B with bolt on kit. There are no tricks to get it on early, just an internal gate and MAC valve to raise boost from 12 to 15psi. As you can see 15psi, stock everthing, comparable low end and the turbo is clearly not struggling. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...37d8f2b263.jpg Dann |
The big GTX2867r is similar yet makes in excess of 450rwhp. This is a pistons, rods, valve springs pump VVT car on E85, no porting, no big valves, stock inlet, compression etc.
I also tuned a EFR 6758 on a built NB8a, with a tubular manifold and 3" exhaust and the results are the 2nd image. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ab0243de1f.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e38aa4e742.jpg |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1500101)
The big GTX2867r is similar yet makes in excess of 450rwhp. This is a pistons, rods, valve springs pump VVT car on E85, no porting, no big valves, stock inlet, compression etc.
I also tuned a EFR 6758 on a built NB8a, with a tubular manifold and 3" exhaust and the results are the 2nd image. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ab0243de1f.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e38aa4e742.jpg |
When you say "comparable" what does that mean? I mean if a 10-20 swing is considered comparable, then yeah I guess they are comparable. Most consider that a big difference. Also most would pick Krackens cast log over your tube-style manifold for durability, and because your setup only fits RHD cars. And that's ignoring transients and curves which your plots clearly ignore because most don't even have the torque curve in them. They could get to the 100hp@3k setpoint very differently and those dyno's won't demonstrate the reality. I have to ask: if this is "your dyno" why on earth don't you have it set up to read like every normal dyno under the sun? I'm trying real hard to have a productive discussion here check this out: https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3d293f648c.jpg if the above compare was done sloppy you could say "they're the same". but when overlayed and compared precisely you can see that there's a wild difference. I can dig out more plots and efr vs gtx plots too. they simply outperform. Just a few months ago you were saying exactly this too. Changed your mind? I guess everyone can just make their own conclusions. |
The EFR is good, transients are good and its certainly not worse than a GTX.
I think the fanboyism here is a bit strong, but its certainly a good turbo. You dont need a torque curve displayed if youre comparing hp at the same rpm points. And if someone really wanted to know they could just calculate it at any point they want. Accurate rpm and power is shown. Dann |
Originally Posted by der_vierte
(Post 1500145)
Boost levels?
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1500170)
When you say "comparable" what does that mean?.. I guess everyone can just make their own conclusions. Dann |
If the gtx line drops like 35% in price, then I see the point you are making. Otherwise, sure, the more expensive (by a lot) gtx line is outperforming the efr line, buuut, the efrs are pretty good, and under 1300 dollars. Plus, they save even more money by not requiring a bov, or flange welding costs..etc.
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The efr is good value for custom fabricated setups, no doubt. However the GTX will go on a taco taco and still make 400whp, the above GTX plot is a bolt on T25 setup, internal gate and everything. In Australia the GTX is cheaper. $2450 aud vs $2525
Dann |
pricetags seem to vary a lot.
in europe a GTX 2860R gen2 is 1350€ and the EFR6258 is 1600€. think both turbos are the most comparable in response and power output as they can get you to ~400whp with the right (same) setup. depends on where you live and what you already have, i think... nitrodann is comparing real power output at a given rpm between setups and i understand that, but its like fake boobs. can look the same, but won't feel the same :giggle: |
100hp@3000rpm is 175 ftlb whether it comes from a car, chainsaw or go kart.
The only thing a dyno doesnt show is transient response. Dann |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1500299)
100hp@3000rpm is 175 ftlb whether it comes from a car, chainsaw or go kart.
The only thing a dyno doesnt show is transient response. Dann You can easily have two turbo's making the same power at the same rpm, heck you can even make the same torque at the same rpm, but one might have a fatter curve and one might leaner curve kinda like I demonstrated with the efr plot. So unless you compare every part of the curve, you could make the conclusion that they are equal. There's really no point in beating this dead horse any more so I'll stop. There's nothing wrong with GTX turbo's, but being so close in price here in the US, I'll take EFR over GTX every day. Pepsi vs Diet Coke :) https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ca6d84075f.png https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f284c2f913.png |
All i know is i had a BEGI S5 EWG cast manifold setup with a gt2860r in a T3 exhaust housing, nb2 with vvt, and 2.5" exhaust, and this setup felt like shit compared to my 6258 setup.
Floor the begi setup at 3k rpm, and its , nothing, nothing, nothing, 4k rpm ok, i start to feel something, 4.5-4.8k rpm OK HERE WE GO. The efr6258 floor at 3k. instant 6psi, 3500rpm yes, here we go. 4000+ holy shit, HOLD ON. basically the 2860 was a full 1k+ rpm delayed when the power hits. and car felt slow as shit on anything under 4k rpm. The EFR basically feels like my 2560, but with a much stronger top end I dont know about these fancy shmancy GTX 2860's, and dont care as efr is better and cheaper. |
Originally Posted by borka
(Post 1500349)
All i know is i had a BEGI S5 EWG cast manifold setup with a gt2860r in a T3 exhaust housing, nb2 with vvt, and 2.5" exhaust, and this setup felt like shit compared to my 6258 setup.
Floor the begi setup at 3k rpm, and its , nothing, nothing, nothing, 4k rpm ok, i start to feel something, 4.5-4.8k rpm OK HERE WE GO. The efr6258 floor at 3k. instant 6psi, 3500rpm yes, here we go. 4000+ holy shit, HOLD ON. basically the 2860 was a full 1k+ rpm delayed when the power hits. and car felt slow as shit on anything under 4k rpm. The EFR basically feels like my 2560, but with a much stronger top end I dont know about these fancy shmancy GTX 2860's, and dont care as efr is better and cheaper. hard to compare your two setups. put a GTX 2860R gen2 on your kraken setup (i own the same) and i think the difference to the EFR isn't that much anymore... |
I drewd you a pitcur, see?
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...492e6888e2.png |
Pidgeon chess.
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Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1500611)
Pidgeon chess.
:D |
Wonder how many people who speak Pidgin know how to play chess....
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Fucking pokemon.
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I know this thread is 2 years old, but borka, can you share your VVT map?
Also I'm curious to know how you're running 21 degrees of timing at 200 KPA without E85, that can't be good. |
Originally Posted by dsamani
(Post 1589045)
I know this thread is 2 years old, but borka, can you share your VVT map?
Also I'm curious to know how you're running 21 degrees of timing at 200 KPA without E85, that can't be good. Pretty sure I'm running right around 20-21* @ 1bar boost. I'll have to check but I'm pretty certain. That's how you make power, also lower CR allows for this. |
Originally Posted by andyfloyd
(Post 1589054)
Pretty sure I'm running right around 20-21* @ 1bar boost. I'll have to check but I'm pretty certain. That's how you make power, also lower CR allows for this.
I haven't had the chance to dial my setup in on a dyno but i figured i was being conservative at 14deg@ 1bar on my 9:1 forged TSE 6258 setup. Seems i'm leaving a LOT more on the table than i thought. Also running e85 but it's the crappy NY stuff so its more like e55/e60 at best. |
Originally Posted by irollgen4s
(Post 1589055)
I haven't had the chance to dial my setup in on a dyno but i figured i was being conservative at 14deg@ 1bar on my 9:1 forged TSE 6258 setup. Seems i'm leaving a LOT more on the table than i thought. Also running e85 but it's the crappy NY stuff so its more like e55/e60 at best.
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Originally Posted by irollgen4s
(Post 1589055)
I haven't had the chance to dial my setup in on a dyno but i figured i was being conservative at 14deg@ 1bar on my 9:1 forged TSE 6258 setup. Seems i'm leaving a LOT more on the table than i thought. Also running e85 but it's the crappy NY stuff so its more like e55/e60 at best.
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