180hp is all i got...:-(
 

So I got a question and need help figuring out what the deal is.

Here is the list of mods:
- 1990, 1.6l stock internals
-Begi-s cast iron mani
-Gt2554
-Small intercooler
-12.5psi
-e85
-600cc injectors
- walbro 255 pump
-custom 3" downpipe
-2.25"(i think thats what it is) Magnaflow exhaust
-MSpnp

From logs it looks like i am running about 10.5 afr at WOT. This is a bit rich especially on e85. The timing at wot is 18 degrees. Which i think is a bit retarded (lol, thats a technical term) for e85.

Last year on 93 pump, begi skinny downpipe and about 11psi i made 191 and 179 torque. This time with new downpipe, e85 and 12.5psi i made 182 and 180 torque.

Is my timing too retarded? what is safe timing on e85? 20 degrees? maybe even 25 degrees?

Should i lean out a bit? 11.5 at wot?

I am including a couple pulls in 2nd gear and my map.

timing could probably be safe on 93 octane...and e85 is how much less efficient than 93 octane?

from I know about e85, you need about 20% more fuel than you would with 93 octane to get the same AFR and then maybe a 10* bump in timing advance to get power...

Dynojet?

I got about 30% more fuel already. 10* really? Thats interesting. I know i can bump the timing up, but i can no idea i could go that much? So 10* all around?

I witched to e85 because its higher octane and less prone to detonation and my egts are way way lower on it. And it does not smell as bad as pump.

yes, sadly it was dynojet both times.

e85= fail yeah bump that shit up closer to 30 or so and then get your fuel sorted. you would prob be better of using my timming map imo
Attachment 198177

More timing!

I once made 138whp at 12psi with my Greddy kit. Figured out later that my harmonic balancer had slipped and my timing was way retarded.

retarded map is retarded

way too rich and way too little timing. you're using e85 you should be closer to 11.7-12.0 afr's and timing could be bumped WAYY up safely.....you are giving up SOO much power with that map.

why e85 =fail?

I will lean it out a little bit up top and scale the timing about 10 degrees all the way across and see what happens.

Your puny exhaust isn't helping either.

I know its not. I cant even hear the turbo spool with it:vash:.

Thats the next thing i need upgraded. a full 3" exhaust or 2.5" is pretty good?

Might as well do a 3 incher if your going to go through the trouble of it.

true.

10.5 (gas equiv) afr is too rich with E85, you can pull at least half a point of fuel (gas equiv). I will post my map and logs later, but if you can find my timing map on here from my last tune we added ~4-6* spark angle to that to find mbt with E85, and left it there. I thought we were going to be able to add more spark, but mbt came up earlier than I thought. This is with ~1.9L, 2000 head, etc.

Well, the lc-1 reads in lambda so when it reads 14.4 is actually stoch(sp?) for e85.

You are going to shit when you see my info. STFU until you do.

Lambda=1 for any wbo2 is stoic for E85 or gas. If there isn't a way to translate lambda differently for different fuels on the display and if the WB is "set" for gas, then 14.7 is lambda=1 when you are burning E85, and it will show as 14.7. Gots? It makes it easy to tune when you are used to tuning gas.

You can run a smidge (like half point) leaner on the big end with E85, because of it's good properties. Mangina will confirm.

I'm 99.99999999% sure that if you hook the lc1 up to your laptop with the serial cable you can change the stoich value to e85. Did you do that already?

As i understand you dont have to change anything. Because if 1=14.7 for gas and 10.5= 1 for e85 the lc-1 will read 14.7 when e85 is at 1 lambda. So there is no difference.

So what i mean is it does not matter what fuel you run at stoich the gauge will read 1 and translate it to 14.7 afr.

At least thats what i was reading online and thats what the tuner at the dyno told me.

You can change it to e85 reading but that will only be more confusing because the gauge will be reading 10.5 at stoich and I am used to seeing 14.7.

Yeah, don't change the gauge display, leave it on gas. You can just run it a smidge thinner than on gas.

To get mine running well enough to get it on the trailer, literally all I had to change was reqfuel. And I changed EVERYTHING about the car.

So, you tuned it on the dyno? He didn't add spark angle to reach mbt?

I had it tuned on the dyno long time ago when i still was on stick clutch and bunch of things had changed. I had my head rebuilt, new 3" downpipe, more boost, new clutch , e85.

I did road tune the car for e85 myself, by just scaling the map and leaning it out and making it a little richer in some spots. But did not touch the spark map

On saturday the place had a dyno day so i just did a few pulls for fun and to my surprise got way lower numbers than before.

Can you post up your reqfuels before and after E85, and how you got them?

Meh, I was looking at your spark table vs my old one. Wait until I get home to load my new E85 table, but I'm thinking you can add at least 6-8* everwhere in boost, and as much as 8-10 at the big end. Your map is conservative for 93, weakfailboat for E85.

Wait...you have a 3" downpipe hooked up to a 2.25" exhaust?

That's worse than a 2.25" downpipe and exhaust because you have a sudden contraction, which causes a vena contraction immediately downstream, equivalent in flow restriction to a pipe of about 40% smaller diameter...or 65% less cross sectional flow area.

Your shit will haul balls once you put a real exhaust on there, you might as well have a stock system on there right now.


Oh yeah, and get some knock boxing, tune timing, profit.

Yeah i know. Its whatever the size of magnaflow exhaust.

lol ok lemme know what you get and im pretty sure i can do it on pump gas with no fmic :P

^with what, a fifth injector? You are fucking high.

he does water/meth injection.

So yes, it is a fifth injector, but it's not injecting fuel. :)

actualy i run 2 extra nozzles. 2 stage WMI ftw.
<------is cool enough to buy methanol by the 55 gallon barrel.

Not that much advance here, but we reached mbt and didn't pull timing from there. Built forged 1.9ish engine, 9.5:1, 2000 head with os valves, 2560R with Begi S4 mani and mid-sized fmic, 3" dp transitioning to 2 1/2" dual resonator exhaust (ran out of schekels). FWIW in boost runs of around 12psi I'm logging 11.3-11.6 (gas equiv) AFRs. I do have a tip-in transition to boost that's logging low 10s, but that's with some accel enrichment. I'm still waiting on plots so that I can report more fully.

wow, thats a lot of timing at 184kpa. Do you mind posting your ve table? are you on e85?

Here is my new spark map and one of the logs. I did take out some fuel from the top but still seeing about 10.8 afrs.

on a built motor with lowish compression, i don't see how 20° at 12psi is "a lot of timing" On 93 octane on my stock 1.6L block i run around 17-18° at the same boost...With 8.5:1 CR motors we've pushed 23-24° of timing at +15psi without signs of det... :2cents:

http://www.rif.org/

I was expecting to run more angle, but mbt trumps being able to brag on the webz how much angle you run.

im just sayin' dawg.

kewl, yo. I'm jus sayin, too. That small ball part of me was a lil disappointed that we couldn't push the tune harder and get results. I am very satisfied, however, that I am in a very very safe region overall. Except my trans, of course.

If you are confident in your WB and feel like being a man, pull more fuel. We saw lots of power pulling fuel, 10.8 is fat for that sweet fuckin alky. Get that shit to 11.3 on the big and add some angle to get within 2* of mine then put it back on the rollers. I wouldn't expect a lot more power than with gas, if any, but for a given tune it will be safer.

For whatever it's worth, this screenshot of a log from a dyno pull shows the VE table. And yes, sunshine, it is on E85, or whatever the pumps put out now which is probably more like E70. This pull was probably around 287 whp on a dynapack, but without plots :dunno:.

Edit: I posted the wrong msq associated with the log. Fixed in this post.

Quick question. Do I need to pull out the wideband from the down pipe to recalibrate it or can i jut do it with it in the dp?

Pull it.

Even if I did not dive the car for 24 hours ?

Still pull it. 2 options:

1. Unscrew the damn sensor and calibrate it properly
2. *maybe* be ok because the car hasn't started in 24 hours. -> You then have to recalibrate

I don't like to half ass shit. If there is a proper way to do it, do it that way.

=nicer than webby would have been

Dude just pull it. I dicked around with this for awhile. Let my car sit for 24hrs, then 3 days, then 7 days, then a month and it never calibrated properly.

Pulled it out and calibrated it properly and no issues since.

Not pulling it also fucks with your heater cal. Didn't pull it one time, and the red LED would finally light up (signals sensor up to operating temp) about 30min into my drive.

Will do. I will pull it later today and recalibrate it. I want to make sure my wb is reading right before I start pulling fuel.