knock filter and amp
1 Attachment(s)
The circuit is meant to emulate a GM style tuned piezo knock sensor. It is meant for ECUs that can take a piezo knock sensor signal.
You take a 99/00 knock sensor, it filters and amplifies the signal. It is tuned to 13 khz IIRC, which is the peak frequency that I noticed when I did audio recordings of knock from my 00 sensor. |
Do you still need the GM electronics (as described here:MS2-Extra Hardware Manual) to make the MS (MS2 in my case) acknowledge the knock or is the circuit alone enough (sorry, I am no expert in electronics - I suppose a look at the circuit would tell me )
Thanks |
thx Jason.
What is the value of C9? Why is the pink part, uhm, pink? |
C9 is a trim capacitor, a placeholder, if one were to hand trim the circuit to peak at 13 kHz.
The pink part is because I was cleaning up the schematic and the stupid Orcad software crashed, and lost my work; I saved a screenshot and the pink part is when you select a group of parts. I was in the middle of a move operation. |
Originally Posted by Zaphod
(Post 365306)
Do you still need the GM electronics (as described here:MS2-Extra Hardware Manual) to make the MS (MS2 in my case) acknowledge the knock or is the circuit alone enough (sorry, I am no expert in electronics - I suppose a look at the circuit would tell me )
Thanks |
OK I'll re-ask my question here...
What's needed to share the sensor between the factory ECU and hydra? |
Remove R19.
Does the Hydra take a GM style knock sensor instead of the 99's? |
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
(Post 365527)
Remove R19.
Does the Hydra take a GM style knock sensor instead of the 99's? |
So why do you need this circuit?
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
(Post 365381)
I'd have to see the MS knock input circuitry.
From the MS2 Manuals: A conditioning module is also required, such as GM's Electronic Spark Control (ESC) module (PN 16022621, 16052401), see above. These are also available as Standard Motor Products LXE6, LXE7, and LXE9. These are very common in recycling yards, they were used all virtually all GM vehicles from the mid-1980s to the late 1990s. You should match the sensor and module by application to ensure they will work together properly. The ESC module sends a voltage signal (8 to 10 volts) when NO knock is detected by the knock sensor. If knock occurs, this signal is pulled low. http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/General_Pix/ewknock.GIF This signal is fed to the MS2-Extra ECU via either Pin 3,4,5 or 6 of the db37 connector (SPR1,2,3 and 4 respectively) and linking that pin to either JS4 or JS5. However you need to reduce the module signal voltage since it is too high for the processor port directly. You can use the proto area on the V3 main board, a 1K Ohm resistor (1/4 or 1/8 watt), and a 4.7 Volt Zener 1W diode (Digi-Key 1N4732ADICT-ND, 36¢) to do this, as shown below: http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/Gene...roto_knock.GIF Is this enough information for you? Thanks again... |
No, I need the input circuitry that the line "megasquirt" in the first diagram above goes to.
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
(Post 365593)
So why do you need this circuit?
Originally Posted by y8s
(Post 365450)
OK I'll re-ask my question here...
What's needed to share the sensor between the factory ECU and hydra? |
Over on MS forums, there are some implementations of knock chips.. Single, real time programable chips for reading knock.
The downside to them is most need something to speak SPI to them, though a $2 atmel chip will work.. it means you need to find code. Two things MS is not going to do for you, now, is ignition windowing (only looking when you expect knock, so you can increase sensitivity, prevent "silent knock" death) and have an adjustable level (at least on MS-II beta. The released version supported analog knock signal, which should be a huge boon to anyone, relaxes the constraint on the band pass filter jason posted, and lets you be more sensitive down in your torque peak where you'd expect knock). You might add an LED output, that's probably the best feature of my knocksense. :-) |
The MS is logic-level. It expects a low-impedance (to ground) when knock is present, and a high impedance (or +5) when there is no knock. Typically, the output is also held low for a few tens of milliseconds so the MS has time to capture it.
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Possibly on the MS-I. And now on the MS-II, as well. It still goes into an analog in, but is read as a digital signal. Thanks once again for making more effort to make a product worse.
Whatever. How can you not give up on something like that. You should see what they did to support the guy who made an auto-trans controller out of a microsquirt. Knock should definately be read analog. Meh. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 365792)
The MS is logic-level. It expects a low-impedance (to ground) when knock is present, and a high impedance (or +5) when there is no knock. Typically, the output is also held low for a few tens of milliseconds so the MS has time to capture it.
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They have Knock, or no knock.
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
(Post 365379)
C9 is a trim capacitor, a placeholder, if one were to hand trim the circuit to peak at 13 kHz.
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I'm really curious to see how this works, as well. It seems a good idea, but... knock sensing seems to be one of the harder things to pull off.
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Originally Posted by f_devocht
(Post 393655)
Did you actually build the circuit? I'm planning on trying it out once I get the MS up and running, but how would I tune it / determine the value of C9?
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