Landrew

iTrader: (2)

I am learning.....slowly........ about MS and Adaptronic.

I dont want to fuel a fire on this debate as to which is better but I would like to know if an NBB with MS will be a happy marriage, not a 6 month fling?

I am slowly gathering info on a DIY inexpensive piece by piece turbo build.

I want to start with an ECU added to my stock motor/factory ECU.

Then I plan on going Turbo (6-8psi) with no IC for a few months and then add IC (but stay at a high of 12psi) Looking for response more than peak HP. I'm in Alberta so no emissions or testing will ever be done.

I like Adaptronics ease of install/setup and compatability/features with the NBB. I dont like the over $1000 cost. That hurts my "inexpensive turbo build" parameters.


MS: I like the cost and numbers of people who have experience with it, but.....but I see that it may not be as "kind" to newbs as myself when it comes to install and setup for an NBB. Am I correct in thinking that under $600 will get me a MS NBB MS build? Then I spend some quality time in setting it up for my car stock - then close the matter.
Then when I go turbo I adjust my cells, spend some quality time tuning it and then done again and be happy with it for quite some time as it stays stable and reliable ??.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

Adaptronic = better code, a few more features, easiest to install and get running
MS = I'm assuming you're talking about the DIYPNP, in which case yes it is cheaper, and a great system, but still not plug and play. Ben is getting his up and running but I haven't seen reports of it being finished, and he's the only one I know of that is even attempting this so far.

There is a lot more involvement required in setting up MS. If you know your **** with a soldering iron, electronics, wiring charts and diagrams and can build your own ms, DO IT. It's cheaper.

If not, adaptronic is the way to go. And its not over 1k.

Landrew

iTrader: (2)

What's the best price on Adap so far - around 850?

If I can get my soldering down what can MS be built by me for 400?

18psi

iTrader: (76)

Adaptronic is 950 with the harness I think. Without its 680 I think.

DIYPNP - 425 I think. Plus whatever else to get it to work. It doesn't come with everything needed afaik.

Here's bens thread:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t38806/

thats for the diypnp though. Most people run it in parrallel using a 94-97 CAS and that mumbo jumbo. I think a few setups were sold for 600 or so.

Stein

iTrader: (46)

If you are serious about containing cost and seriously considering building a MS, buy the Adaptorinc without the PnP board for 680 as 18psi said, build your own board and save some $. Even then, It's probably not worth the savings. Sure is nice to plug it in, load a base map and start driving.

Oh, and you will likely have to buy a CAS for the MS so that's another $50-60. It all adds up.

That said, I wouldn't (didn't) do it and DIY'ed as much as possible.

A bit sooner and you could have bought my whole setup. It just sold this week.

Landrew

iTrader: (2)

I saw your setup and prices - too bad for me! Wondering if a deal like that will ever come up again in the next year, doubt it - those were great prices.

Has anyone here done the Adap PnP board ?

18psi

iTrader: (76)

I will be selling my setup in the spring

(shhhh don't tell anyone I'm going v8)

Stein

iTrader: (46)

I assume that you mean build your own? y8s is the only one that has done it. It's a ****-ton of work.

Ahhh, another convert.

Landrew

iTrader: (2)

spring in Canada and winter in Cali is the same....i'll be watching and saving. Should I pm you now for some insider trading?

18psi

iTrader: (76)

I'm too excited about just finishing up my build, so its too soon LOL
But seriously: come march/april shoot me a pm

y8s

iTrader: (8)

Well here's the thing.

If you're doing a parallel, emissions compliant install of ANY ecu, dont bother making a complete pass-thru harness.

Just cut the few wires you need to run what the adaptronic runs. I wont even look down on you for cutting the stock harness.

Then tap into the ones you want to share. It's pretty simple.

you need to sever 6 wires minimum to do the basic parallel install:
Injection 1, 2, 3, and 4
Ignition 1 and 2.

You need to splice into about 10:
Injector GND
VSS
Cam sensor
Crank sensor
Neutral sw
clutch sw
knock sensor
sensor gnd
TPS
and power

then you need to figure out your temp sensors. if you are smart with electronics, you can use a single sensor to feed both ECUs and that means another cut wire. If you're not, and can install a second water temp sensor, you're good to go.

you also need to add an air temp sensor.

so it's really not so bad. And if you hate cutting wires, you can just make your own fuel and ignition wire harnesses and run them to the engine bay through a grommet when you pull the temp sensor wiring.

Ben

iTrader: (33)

As far as I know, it's done. My wideband failed, and while it's getting repaired, I grounded the car because I am unable to get any tuning done without it.

Landrew

iTrader: (2)

"what, what was that, you wanted to build one for me in your spare time for a small fee, ok how much and when could you do that ?" he overheard them say as he went to fetch his pocketbook.........

no really does anyone want to build me either an Adap or a MS? My skills are so so but my time is limited. Time is money so I could pay for that time. I'm selling a bit of S10 and motocross extras on ebay so i'll have some ECU money more than I'll have ECU time.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

That is GREAT news. Haven't seen your thread in a while so I wasn't sure.
yeah keep dreaming.
You are in exactly the same shoes I was last year: I was BEGGING people to build me a parallel MS and everyone was either too busy or basically told me to go **** myself.

Landrew

iTrader: (2)

I might wuss out and build this sooner than later:

BEGI-S Turbo System 1999-2005 [61600]

change kit to these below and say no to the Turbo:

S4 Exhaust Manifold 2000-2005. T25/T28. [61417]

S4 Separated Gases Downpipe 1999-2004 [61404]

Find a used Turbo and a used Voodoo box. Run 6-8 psi then enjoy and once 8 psi wears off save for the Adaptronic and a IC at the same time and go 12psi?

The Voodoo i can resell and get my money back - all other parts are still usable for the upgrade path

Comments ?

18psi

iTrader: (76)

Dude seriously, you doing EXACTLY what I was going to do. I even bought a voodoo box and had it ready.

Then when I put everything together, I started doing lots of reading about the voodoo box/stock injectors/etc.

If you are on 91oct chances are you won't even be able to SAFELY run 8psi. More like 6-7 tops. Next you'll need the fm timing wheel to retard the timing. There is no way in hell you'll get away with boost on pump gas without retarding timing. So you throw on the wheel, dial it back 6* and you should be ok, EXCEPT now your car will be much slower before you hit boost. Cause you will retard timing EVERYWHERE.

So your injectors will be at their limit, the car will be lazy in the lower rpm (before boost), and you will see only about 160-170 *REALISTIC* whp. I know on the site it claims 200whp on 8psi but that's not common. Most make less.

TRUST ME

Just save up and get real engine management, with bigger injectors and an intercooler. I can not stress this enough.

Landrew

iTrader: (2)

wahh, thanks for ruining Christmas........

then again how many times have you gotten a toy and it seems cool then breaks in a few weeks and you have to buy the same one have it break again, lose interest or tell yourself you should have bought the better one.....just like voodoo vs Adap.

guess ill start saving and wait for you to sell yours....


(30 seconds goes by)

so how much for yours again......

Landrew

iTrader: (2)

hmmmm - it is winter here with snow and ice

voodoo box=traction control under 2500rpm

sudden boost= loss of control over 2500rpm

18psi

iTrader: (76)

yeah man, I learned one thing for certain when wrenching on this car: you don't mess around with stuff like engine management.

I made a ton of threads asking if I could "get away with this" and "get away with that". The answer was NO! DON'T CHEAP OUT ON IMPORTANT STUFF

Then I bought the voodoo box, some supra 305 injectors (the largest the stock ecu will idle), and said "ok, well i should be good for at least 8-10psi". Everyone was saying "OK BUT ITS STILL A STUPID PLAN"

I was so mad that people didn't want to agree with me.


Finally broke down, got the Adaptronic, map sensor, ait sensor, etc etc etc and set everything up properly. Believe me, 8psi got boring REAL fast. And boy was I glad I had everything needed to be able to turn up the boost

JayL

iTrader: (12)

If you want to do this in steps to keep on a budget, start with the most important first. Proper engine management is the most important thing in any build. Get it setup and learn to manipulate the software while the car is stock and very forgiving.