Per cylinder EGT monitoring
On the track beastie I want to monitor EGT's on all 4 cylinders.
Has ANYone done this before? If so, how did you monitor them? AEM has the 4 channel amp that can drive 4 simultaneous 0-5 volt outputs, but I would also like to have them output to a gauge. The AEM serial gauge is nice, but it requires their EMS and I am using a Hydra. Ultimately I would like a bright-mofo red LED to flash or light up when I exceed say 1700*f. I suck @ electronics, but I am assuming I could find out from the sensor manufacturer the temp --> volt calculations and then take it to someone to rig up some sort of electronics board that would fire a signal to an LED, but that is all voodoo and I would rather find some sort of gauge that can monitor all 4 signals simultaneously. Aside from that AEM serial gauge, are there any other options? Thanks, Mike |
Innovative has a 4 channel data logger that I believe can take the inputs you want at the very least. i know it can display any one of them, but not sure it can do all 4 at once, or an alarm for high temp on any one of them. Might be worth a call to ask.
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You mean a gauge like this?
http://www.westach.com/gauge_images/3AQ3.jpg This one is a CHT/EGT gauge but Westach makes a 2 1/4" quad EGT gauge. Here's their website: Westach |
OMG that is awesome Bill.
Mike, might you consider getting a buzzer wired into that fancy do-dad circuit as well. I know i am not always looking at my cluster (or gauges for that matter) when i drive. My next plan is wireing an "oh shit your oil pressure is too low" buzzer/light into my 90. |
Originally Posted by thesnowboarder
(Post 493449)
OMG that is awesome Bill.
Mike, might you consider getting a buzzer wired into that fancy do-dad circuit as well. I know i am not always looking at my cluster (or gauges for that matter) when i drive. My next plan is wireing an "oh shit your oil pressure is too low" buzzer/light into my 90. |
Reverant has 4 widebands and 4 pyrometers. One at each cylinder.
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The audible and visual alarm is exactly what I am looking for, the only problem is it requires their WB meter and it only supports a single EGT input, although possibly 2 additional analog inputs. 3 out of 4 aint bad, but...
Zeitronix Audio-Visual Warning and Trigger Box ZAVT-1 http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zavt/ZAVT1300-1.jpghttp://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zavt/ZAVT300.jpg |
You can also get a digital gauge that will just show the highest of the 4, rotate through them, or let you just select one. Screw around in ebay's aviation section. Bunch of egt stuff in there.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Aircr...item4cec753b96 |
I just bought a multi gauge with alert capability from forum member dustinb.
These here: PLX Devices Inc. - Multi Gauges, Single Gauges, Sensor Modules, Wideband Air Fuel Ratio, Data Logging, Fuel Saving / Scan Tools You can have 4 egt sensors and have them displayed simultaneously. You can set overtemperature or undertemperature alerts that will flash "warning" on the screen. You can also get 0-5v output from the gauges. I bought them because of the alerting capability. I'm going to be using one gauge for oil temp, oil pressure, and water temp. If any sensor value exceeds the threshold I'll get alerts. I also have a dual EGT guage-- a somewhat mediocre analog gauge from FM manufactured by Westach. See my build thread for pics. The thermocouples and wires from Westach were very expensive. It should be well worth it though for when I tune my WI. One last note: I have a log manifold and have never seen more than 100 degrees difference in EGTs between cylinder 1 and 4. When under boost, the differences are slight. If you have a tubular manifold you might see a larger delta between the runners due to complete gas separation. If accurate EGT data is important to you, it might be worth upgrading to a tubular (if you don't have one already). |
Its a pretty common thing on aircraft, Im sure you could pick up used systems for pretty decent prices. Although the new ones arnt really that bad either
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You will need a thermocouple amp circuit to amplify the thermocouple output.
I built such a circuit, single channel. $10 in parts per channel Digi-Key - LTK001CN8#PBF-ND (Manufacturer - LTK001CN8#PBF) |
Why limit yourself to just an alert? My oil pressure plan was going to be to feed the input into the ecu and STOP the engine on a low oil pressure condition. For EGT's couldn't you adjust timing or boost?
Just sayin' saving the motor > flashing a light. |
Originally Posted by Chris Swearingen
(Post 493556)
Why limit yourself to just an alert? My oil pressure plan was going to be to feed the input into the ecu and STOP the engine on a low oil pressure condition. For EGT's couldn't you adjust timing or boost?
Just sayin' saving the motor > flashing a light. flashing light > off track backwards |
Originally Posted by faeflora
(Post 493504)
One last note: I have a log manifold and have never seen more than 100 degrees difference in EGTs between cylinder 1 and 4. When under boost, the differences are slight. If you have a tubular manifold you might see a larger delta between the runners due to complete gas separation. If accurate EGT data is important to you, it might be worth upgrading to a tubular (if you don't have one already).
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Semi related...why did you switch from the AEM EMS to a Hydra? Especially now that you could use the 4 EGT's to trim fuel as well as do what you want it to, in terms of buzzers or displays.
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Originally Posted by Rennkafer
(Post 493571)
What happens when the engine shuts off mid-corner for a little oil slosh...
flashing light > off track backwards
Originally Posted by TurboTim
(Post 493608)
Semi related...why did you switch from the AEM EMS to a Hydra? Especially now that you could use the 4 EGT's to trim fuel as well as do what you want it to, in terms of buzzers or displays.
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Originally Posted by minime
(Post 493609)
Yeah, that would NOT be good. I am adding an accusump so finger-crossed, this won't happen to me. I'm also installing the Boundary high flow oil pump... every little bit helps.
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Originally Posted by faeflora
(Post 493612)
Which accusump are you using and what accessories are you setting it up with? Where are you going to mount it? I thought about the accusump for pre-oiling but it will add a lot of complexity (and cost) to my setup.
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What is the point of an Accusump if it's not set up to autofire (or am I missing something)?
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Oil is added when the pressure in the accusump chamber is > than the engine oil pressure. The ball valve is just used for priming the engine on startup and of course needs to be closed before the engine is stopped so it doesn't dump the oil back into the engine, which I guess is good for doing oil changes as it would automatically dump it out of the chamber.
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How big will the holes for the thermocouples need to be, and will they 4 holes compromise the strength of the manifold?
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
(Post 493694)
How big will the holes for the thermocouples need to be, and will they 4 holes compromise the strength of the manifold?
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
(Post 493694)
How big will the holes for the thermocouples need to be, and will they 4 holes compromise the strength of the manifold?
EDIT: my ktype EGT probe uses a 1/8NPT adapter. It shouldn't adversely affect it...hmmmm. |
I would think you could wire a safety thing like that into, say, a knock signal. So, you'll get a light, and it'll pull timing (on low oil pressure)...
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I have the 4 channel aircraft EGT unit mentioned in this thread mounted in the left center vent position. The price is really very reasonable for what you get and the digital output with color-coded bar graph blows the Westach away.
M. |
Originally Posted by MeOughtta
(Post 500185)
I have the 4 channel aircraft EGT unit mentioned in this thread mounted in the left center vent position. The price is really very reasonable for what you get and the digital output with color-coded bar graph blows the Westach away.
M. What manifold do you have? Got a coolant reroute? Duel feed fuel rail? Turbod and if so, what injectors? And lastly-- the biggie: What temperature variance have you seen between your cylinders? What's the max you've ever seen? All the previous questions make the answer to the last question useful :) thanks |
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Incredible how I missed this thread, since I have quad EGTs and quad LC-1s. My advice, don't try unless you know you need them. Costly, and for most builds, unnecessary.
Jim |
Originally Posted by Reverant
(Post 500310)
Incredible how I missed this thread, since I have quad EGTs and quad LC-1s. My advice, don't try unless you know you need them. Costly, and for most builds, unnecessary.
Jim |
Originally Posted by faeflora
(Post 500222)
M: A few questions---
What manifold do you have? Got a coolant reroute? Duel feed fuel rail? Turbod and if so, what injectors? And lastly-- the biggie: What temperature variance have you seen between your cylinders? What's the max you've ever seen? All the previous questions make the answer to the last question useful :) thanks Manifold: The semi-new cast manfold. gihttp://www.bellengineering.net/product_info.php?products_id=36 Coolant re-route: Yes. Duel fuel-rail: I never duel with a fuel rail - they spray fuel in my eyes and I always lose. But I do have a dual-feed rail that I never duel with. <grin> T28 turbo, oversize valves headwork, 550 injectors. #2 and #3 consistently about 100 F (about 50C) higher than #1 and #4. I don't have a cam sensor so I no sequential injection, i.e.. can't tune it out with fuel. You wee asking such specific questions -- do you have specific experience with this? |
Originally Posted by Nagase
(Post 500360)
Looking at your signature... wow. If you could make a build thread... that would be awesome. Pics/details/how/why/whatfor/uses/data... anything would rock.
- a drop of blood - a bowl of tears - a shirt full of summer sweat - and some fresh bile will have to do for now. Jim |
Originally Posted by Reverant
(Post 501218)
A picture depicting:
- a drop of blood - a bowl of tears - a shirt full of summer sweat - and some fresh bile will have to do for now. Jim Any turboe? |
Originally Posted by Reverant
(Post 500310)
... I have ... quad LC-1s.
M. |
Originally Posted by MeOughtta
(Post 501606)
Any trouble getting the LC-1s to work right at the exhaust ports? I thought that was supposed to be impossible even NA.
M. Jim |
Originally Posted by faeflora
(Post 501221)
Any turboe?
Jim |
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie
(Post 493540)
Its a pretty common thing on aircraft, Im sure you could pick up used systems for pretty decent prices. Although the new ones arnt really that bad either
It is important to note that many of the older EGT probes (aircraft and automotive) are slow reacting to EGT changes. JPI was one of the first to use modern fast reacting EGT probes. I've flown EGT equipped aircraft with both the old Westech style probes and the new JPI style fast reacting probes and there is NO comparison. I think one may be able to find a fairly robust EGT analyzer (e.g., fast reacting probes with data logging) by looking at the niche manufacturers for the experimental aircraft market. This equipment does not need to meet FAA specs/require FAA certification. Accordingly, "experimental" engine instrumentation/analyzers are cheaper and often have more features than the certified versions. |
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