1.6 450whp or bust
04-18-2014, 01:03 PM
#62
450hp out of a 1.6 is a huge number. There have been a few that have made the statement that they will get it and it will be drivable. I don't doubt that 450hp is obtainable, all it takes is money. I do question weather it will be drivable. I have no doubt in my mind that it will be crazy stupid fast if the power level is reached.
I have a 485hp Miata, and it is stupid, crazy, fast. It is also powered by a Honda f20c engine. That's 2.0 liters with one of the best flowing heads ever manufactured from the factory. Turbo charging any engine properly is going to take a **** ton of cash. There are short cuts that can be taken to save money, like stock fuel lines, instead of AN lines and fittings. But, if you want to go all out, no corners cut, you are looking at 10k at least. I have no idea how much I have in my build, don't want to know, I just kept spending until I had it built. Unless you have that attitude you won't get it built. The fact that you state it will be done in stages worries me. I had one stage, buy parts, put parts on, but more parts, put more parts on, repeat until complete.
One more thought, I run a 3582 on my 2L, 9k rpm engine, and I don't build meaningful boost until 5k rpm. Unless you raise the rpm range substantially, your going to have very little area under the curve, it is the area under the curve that makes a car drivable. 450 hp is not impressive if the area from 300-450 is only 5% of the area under the curve.
But get it done, I love big HP builds.
I have a 485hp Miata, and it is stupid, crazy, fast. It is also powered by a Honda f20c engine. That's 2.0 liters with one of the best flowing heads ever manufactured from the factory. Turbo charging any engine properly is going to take a **** ton of cash. There are short cuts that can be taken to save money, like stock fuel lines, instead of AN lines and fittings. But, if you want to go all out, no corners cut, you are looking at 10k at least. I have no idea how much I have in my build, don't want to know, I just kept spending until I had it built. Unless you have that attitude you won't get it built. The fact that you state it will be done in stages worries me. I had one stage, buy parts, put parts on, but more parts, put more parts on, repeat until complete.
One more thought, I run a 3582 on my 2L, 9k rpm engine, and I don't build meaningful boost until 5k rpm. Unless you raise the rpm range substantially, your going to have very little area under the curve, it is the area under the curve that makes a car drivable. 450 hp is not impressive if the area from 300-450 is only 5% of the area under the curve.
But get it done, I love big HP builds.
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04-18-2014, 01:14 PM
#63
jtothewhowhatwhenwhyhow made that claim like 800 billion times, and viperormiata kept echoing it. they were both about to "finish up their projects soon"
its been like 4 years.
both stopped posting altogether lol
I tuned Ryans 1.6 to 360whp. It lights up 3rd on a 110F day on Toyo R888's. The only reason he didn't kill himself on it yet is because he's a REALLY good driver and has been road racing for basically ever. Its nuts
its been like 4 years.
both stopped posting altogether lol
I tuned Ryans 1.6 to 360whp. It lights up 3rd on a 110F day on Toyo R888's. The only reason he didn't kill himself on it yet is because he's a REALLY good driver and has been road racing for basically ever. Its nuts
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04-18-2014, 01:37 PM
#64
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I'm sure 450hp would be fairly unreasonable to daily. Pretty dyno sheet and a benchmark of what the setup is capable of but that's it. I'm sure 300hp+ in a 2200lb car would be plenty for most. On a side note the twin disc ceramic clutch from 949 seems like a fairly modest add-on to help with "mechanical empathy". And the ribbing was not as bad as I had thought it was going to be lol at least I haven't broken out a sawsall and cut up frame rails haha
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04-18-2014, 03:06 PM
#66
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Beginning to see that the limits of the 1.6 have already been explored I suppose. I want something tried and true, not exactly a "budget build" but I do want it done well and done right the first time.
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04-18-2014, 03:12 PM
#67
Then get a vvt longblock, and chuck like 6k at it, then strap a EFR 6758 or 7163 and all the suporting mods, and crank it up.
Its gonna cost you.
A lot.
IF (and its a ginormous IF) you actually pull it off, then get ready to start breaking axles and transmissions, and explore that whole wonderful world of expensive.
A local guy with approx 450 to the wheels shifted hard into 6th and actually twisted the input shaft on his 6speed.
so that will be fun
(that's right, shifted hard: he actually is nuts enough to do pulls to the end of 6th)
PS: also side story, we had a tire blowout on Ryans 1.6 at 140+ MPH. talk about puckering and dropping bricks
Its gonna cost you.
A lot.
IF (and its a ginormous IF) you actually pull it off, then get ready to start breaking axles and transmissions, and explore that whole wonderful world of expensive.
A local guy with approx 450 to the wheels shifted hard into 6th and actually twisted the input shaft on his 6speed.
so that will be fun
(that's right, shifted hard: he actually is nuts enough to do pulls to the end of 6th)
PS: also side story, we had a tire blowout on Ryans 1.6 at 140+ MPH. talk about puckering and dropping bricks
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04-18-2014, 03:27 PM
#68
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That's definitely on the outer reaches of what I want. Good power up to around 7500rpm. More or less daily driven at around 350-375hp. I would prefer knowing that the motor can handle more then I will throw at it, more or less as a safety margin. Efr turbos seem like a pretty damn good compromise as far as spool vs top end power. Hopefully someone will come up with a proven transmission solution to handle the upper reaches of 400-450hp with mild abuse. Pegging out 6th gear is more adrenaline then I care to partake of lol
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04-18-2014, 03:45 PM
#69
Honestly.... i FULLY believe that if you want 450whp and want it to hold together, and you want a 4 cylinder Mazda for some reason...
The answer is FE3 running to an FD transmission.
Yeah, costs more on the front side, but a 450whp BP attached to a 6spd is going to be a fragile little bastard.
The answer is FE3 running to an FD transmission.
Yeah, costs more on the front side, but a 450whp BP attached to a 6spd is going to be a fragile little bastard.
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04-18-2014, 03:54 PM
#70
Given the short wheel-base, terrible aerodynamics and short gearing, I think when you get to 300rwhp with a turbo that actually has decent mid-range tq/hp...you'll wake up. You mention a 6-spd and 3.9.....which is what my 02 has from the factory and I can tell you right now with 400+hp, you'll feel like you're driving a Jeep in 4WD low....as in Miatas are not top-end cars, at least not with any B6/BP driveline. Up until recently, I was in the 260-270rwhp range and even that will get you in trouble with a quickness in more ways than one. Not to mention that "little" power is still enough to surprise a lot of other cars on the road. Hopefully when the lazy **** who I bought my engine from decides to ship it (lol), I'll be going for a nice even 300rwhp.
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04-18-2014, 03:56 PM
#71
you wanna do highway pulls to 180? get a vette or something like that.
a c5 can be had for 15-18k and with another 10 you can make it run 9's maybe even faster
busy, not lazy.
I pinky promise I'll ship it out to you this week.
pussylips
a c5 can be had for 15-18k and with another 10 you can make it run 9's maybe even faster
Given the short wheel-base, terrible aerodynamics and short gearing, I think when you get to 300rwhp with a turbo that actually has decent mid-range tq/hp...you'll wake up. You mention a 6-spd and 3.9.....which is what my 02 has from the factory and I can tell you right now with 400+hp, you'll feel like you're driving a Jeep in 4WD low....as in Miatas are not top-end cars, at least not with any 4-cylinder Mazda driveline. Up until recently, I was in the 260-270rwhp range and even that will get you in trouble with a quickness in more ways than one. Not to mention that "little" power is still enough to surprise a lot of other cars on the road. Hopefully when the lazy **** who I bought my engine from decides to ship it (lol), I'll be going for a nice even 300rwhp.
busy, not lazy.
I pinky promise I'll ship it out to you this week.
pussylips
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04-18-2014, 04:09 PM
#74
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From the looks of things, the efr 6758 is going to be the "whole package" supporting mods to tune safely and make reliable power in and around 350-ish hp. Should be more then enough to "get my kicks". 180mph is frightening as hell in a car. I have my 08' cbr1000rr for when I want to scare myself. I think I've been pointed in the right direction as to where to go from here concerning my build. Any further assistance/guidance from senior members on this forum as well as knowledgable enthusiasts is always welcome.
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04-18-2014, 04:14 PM
#75
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How are you sure of this?
Have you ridden in a 300whp turbo Miata?
No, no you haven't.
250WHP?
you've ridden in a V8 miata. Yes it's fast. Fastest I've been in is probably 250-260 whp, and it was PLENTY for a street car (and more than I can handle, apparently...
)
450whp in a Miata is ridiculous. IMO, 450 whp in a BP Miata is stupid.
Have you ridden in a 300whp turbo Miata?
No, no you haven't.
250WHP?
you've ridden in a V8 miata. Yes it's fast. Fastest I've been in is probably 250-260 whp, and it was PLENTY for a street car (and more than I can handle, apparently...
)450whp in a Miata is ridiculous. IMO, 450 whp in a BP Miata is stupid.
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