Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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-   Engine Performance (https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-performance-56/)
-   -   1.8L build, aiming for ~275whp (https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-performance-56/1-8l-build-aiming-%7E275whp-69020/)

Savington 11-05-2012 12:25 AM

I might be biased, but I'd suggest supporting the shops that actually race on the weekends - they can suggest parts that are going to actually work.

Mazdaspeeder 11-05-2012 12:33 AM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 946578)
I might be biased, but I'd suggest supporting the shops that actually race on the weekends - they can suggest parts that are going to actually work.

I'm gonna give you a call tomorrow to discuss a few options I see on your site.

Mazdaspeeder 11-07-2012 06:06 PM

Ordered
Boundary Engineering Street/Strip Billet oil pump
Wiseco 83.5mm 8.6:1 Pistons
Eagle H-Beam Rods
Comp Clutch 13lb Steel Flywheel
SPEC Stage 3 clutch kit
ARP main studs
ARP head studs
ARP rod bolts
MegaSquirt MS2 Enhanced

Left to order:
Complete Gasket set
ACL Race Rod Bearings
ACL Race Main Bearings
ACL Thrust Bearings
Mazda Competition Motor Mounts

soviet 11-07-2012 06:14 PM

looks good
make sure you get the right headgasket for the coolant reroute.

Mazdaspeeder 11-07-2012 06:19 PM


Originally Posted by soviet (Post 947562)
looks good
make sure you get the right headgasket for the coolant reroute.

What coolant reroute? I hear there is really marginal differences that can only be measured on a track car...did I hear wrong?

Mazdaspeeder 11-10-2012 12:41 PM

2 Attachment(s)
What do you make of these marks? These are the new eagle rods, these marks are not able to be felt but can be seen under certain angles.
I've outlined them

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1352569262

Also, here there are 2 perfectly straight lines across, again, cannot be felt, but only one rod has them. The outline in the further rod shows where the marks would be (but only one has these).

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1352569262

Im sure its no big deal, but just being ----. Also got my flywheel, main studs, and a sweet mishimoto magnetic drain plug (someone said this is very important for breakin because it will keep any loose particles from the rings down below after they get seated in)

Would running a thicker oil help increase engine life? I've always used 5W-30 in this car, but with the new stuff, maybe it makes sense to go higher? It's gonna get one oil change a year so cost of oil is not a question or issue.

thenuge26 11-10-2012 12:51 PM

Search the forum for coolant reroute info. It is necessary. The cylinders don't get equal coolant flow as your car is set up now due to the fwd origins of the engine. Its not enough to matter at stock levels, but at ~275whp it will.

Mazdaspeeder 11-10-2012 12:53 PM


Originally Posted by thenuge26 (Post 948429)
Search the forum for coolant reroute info. It is necessary. The cylinders don't get equal coolant flow as your car is set up now due to the fwd origins of the engine. Its not enough to matter at stock levels, but at ~275whp it will.

I had a few guys who track their cars regularly say that if it's going to be a track car, it's needed, but for my uses, it's not. I ordered OEM headgasket so no coolant reroute ATM. I don't think people understand that this will be a STREET car, and the 300whp I want is a complete maximum, and I'll utilize all 300whp only occasionally, again, just want the power to be there but I won't always be using it. Then, if I have a 300whp setup that only goes WOT a few times per drive (which only consists of maybe 50 miles at a time), I don't think I'm going to suddenly run into a coolant issue. If I was to be spending most of my time on a track in high RPM under high load, I'd agree with you guys 110%, but the way I drive, it's usually a relaxing cruise, then once I get on the highway I'll romp on it, get it up to triple digits, then back down to speed limit for a few minutes, and then if conditions allow it, I might open it up again. I'm not driving 9/10 or 10/10 on the street regardless, and especially with 300whp on the street in this car, I doubt I'll have to go past half throttle to get the push I want, or to be able to pass someone.

cowboys647 11-10-2012 12:56 PM


Originally Posted by Mazdaspeeder (Post 948430)
I had a few guys who track their cars regularly say that if it's going to be a track car, it's needed, but for my uses, it's not. I ordered OEM headgasket so no coolant reroute ATM.

I'm running without a reroute at 240whp and I did have a stock radiator and had no problems overheating on long canyon runs or in stop and go traffic. You should be fine.

Mazdaspeeder 11-10-2012 01:08 PM

Word for word what I was told, and I trust this guy as he's always got good information

"Cylinder #4 ran hot in the NA Miata for two reasons: inadequate coolant flow and injector #4 was fed last from the fuel rail. So it wasn't cooled as well and got less fuel than the other cylinders - double whammy.

Mazda cleaned things up with the head gasket and fuel rail changes. More coolant passes around 4 and it sips first from the NB fuel rails. A re-route *might* make a difference on a track car (my buddy Mr. Hyde did a reroute on his, but he changed the head gasket to the older front-wheel-drive version).

If I were building an engine for a dual-purpose car (a little track work, lots of street use), I wouldn't worry about a re-route. Most rear-drive cars put water into the same end of the engine that it comes out of."

Mazdaspeeder 11-10-2012 11:39 PM

Any feedback on the clutch? I ordered the spec stage 3 but after some reading am having doubts. Its a 6 puck so im expecting it to be noisy, the grabby part doesnt bother me too too much. Any alternatives i should consider? I can exhange for something else before i install

Braineack 11-11-2012 08:56 AM

im curious as to why anyone buys anything but FMI or II, or the 949 clutch.

shuiend 11-11-2012 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by Mazdaspeeder (Post 948543)
Any feedback on the clutch? I ordered the spec stage 3 but after some reading am having doubts. Its a 6 puck so im expecting it to be noisy, the grabby part doesnt bother me too too much. Any alternatives i should consider? I can exhange for something else before i install

Buy the FM2 clutch and call it a day.

Braineack 11-11-2012 09:14 AM


Originally Posted by shuiend (Post 948580)
Buy the FM2 clutch and call it a day.

so buy a spec stage 3?

Mazdaspeeder 11-11-2012 09:27 AM


Originally Posted by Braineack (Post 948581)
so buy a spec stage 3?

Pretty sure...yea he said FM2..

cowboys647 11-11-2012 11:58 AM

I'm pretty sure that was a facetious remark.

Mazdaspeeder 11-12-2012 09:34 AM

You don't say..

So between fm, clutchmasters, competition, and act which has the better rep and can hold 300.

SJP0tato 11-12-2012 03:43 PM


Originally Posted by Braineack (Post 948581)
so buy a spec stage 3?

Ask any racer, any real racer: They run a spec stage 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706 79821480865132823066470938446095505822317253594081 28481117450284102701938521105559644622948954930381 9644288

Faeflora 11-12-2012 04:34 PM

They run a pie?

18psi 11-12-2012 04:41 PM


Originally Posted by Mazdaspeeder (Post 948832)
You don't say..

So between fm, clutchmasters, competition, and act which has the better rep and can hold 300.

if you're still too dense to pick up on the sarcasm and still can't figure out which is best of that lot being on MT then you have a long way to go

shuiend 11-12-2012 04:49 PM


Originally Posted by Mazdaspeeder (Post 948832)
You don't say..

So between fm, clutchmasters, competition, and act which has the better rep and can hold 300.


Originally Posted by shuiend (Post 948580)
Buy the FM2 clutch and call it a day.

That was my response just 4 posts above where I quoted you. My response has not changed and will not change. Put in an FM clutch unless you are planning on using a 949 twin disk.

thenuge26 11-12-2012 04:51 PM

I don't know if this will work, but here is a search for 'clutch' in the suspension and drivetrain section. It has all the answers you need.

https://www.miataturbo.net/search.php?searchid=2565660

Mazdaspeeder 11-16-2012 12:15 PM

Well I went with FM level 2.

Also when I picked up some extra things from the shop today, I noticed the vin plate on my oil pan doesn't match the vin of my actual car. I looked and the VIN of the car for the pan and it was done in March. My VIN rolled off the line mid-April. Is it common for these numbers to be mismatched? I bought the car stock with 35,000 miles, dunno if maybe someone had an issue before I bought the car but there was no damage to the underside to suggest that a pan would have been broken and swapped.

Mazdaspeeder 11-16-2012 12:25 PM

Also, what's the correct procedure to fully eliminate A/C. Is there a new belt involved? What should be removed all-together? Compressor and lines? Condenser?

I hear the real proper way to go manual steering is to replace with a manual rack. I also hear it can be done by looping some line? Anyone care to explain one vs the other?

thenuge26 11-16-2012 12:53 PM

Remove AC.

depower rack.

Savington 11-16-2012 07:05 PM

Replacement pans have no VIN. Your motor was swapped before you bought the car.

Mazdaspeeder 11-17-2012 11:00 AM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 950633)
Replacement pans have no VIN. Your motor was swapped before you bought the car.

Makes me wonder what happened to engine 1, and how many miles are really on engine 2 if thats the case.

cowboys647 11-17-2012 11:18 AM


Originally Posted by Mazdaspeeder (Post 950730)
Makes me wonder what happened to engine 1, and how many miles are really on engine 2 if thats the case.

Damn that's bad luck. It goes to show that you never know when buying used... But I can't see it being too high mileage

Iowamiata1994 11-17-2012 12:05 PM

I did basically the same engine build and put on a BEGI cast set up with GTX2867 turbo and external waste gate. The car dyno'ed at 290 WHP @ 15 PSI boost. The GTX2867 is so efficent it is amazing.

Iowamiata1994 11-17-2012 12:16 PM


Originally Posted by Mazdaspeeder (Post 944160)
Pretty set on everything aside from rods, pistons, and clutch.

Pistons (wiseco or supertech) (8.6:1 compression either way)
Rods (Eagle, K1, Manley)
Clutch (Comp, ACT, etc.)

Is Boundary Engineering oil pump really necessary?

Give me some input on which rod and piston combo you'd choose of the ones I've listed and why. All are priced similarly.

I would go with a ATI Dampner and not the Boundry Engineering pump. The reason for pump failure most often is related to crank movement. The ATI dampner helps to corrects this issue and is not a "Band-aid". I prefer to fix the base cause then treat the Symptom. If I was targeting 400+ I think i would do both as extra protection.

Iowamiata1994 11-17-2012 12:20 PM

I forgot to mention that below 275HP. I would by a high quality pump and not be concerned. The boundry Engineering pump is a very good product, but costly and does not address the base cause.

Savington 11-17-2012 01:55 PM

The ATI damper is more expensive than the Boundary oil pump, and there's no guarantee that the ATI damper will solve the issue. There is, however, a relative amount of certainty that a BE pump will not fail due to standard crank flex at 300+whp. Those of us that race all have Boundary pumps, so take that as you will.

TNTUBA 11-17-2012 07:30 PM

BE Pump should be the second item on your "to buy" list.

Bochinam 11-21-2012 01:07 PM


Originally Posted by TNTUBA (Post 950833)
BE Pump should be the second item on your "to buy" list.

Which B pump, there are three of them?

shuiend 11-21-2012 01:33 PM


Originally Posted by Bochinam (Post 951958)
Which B pump, there are three of them?

Depends which motor you have and the use of it?

If it is a street car without a VVT head you are fine with a street pump. If you have a VVT head or it is a track car I would suggest the race pump.

Mazdaspeeder 11-29-2012 07:47 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Since I have an MSM do I still need to tap the oilpan for a return? Isn't there one already in place for the stock turbo that I can use?

I mean use for the EFR, not the stocker, obviously I know that would work. Driver's side of MSM pan

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1354244884

Mazdaspeeder 11-30-2012 07:36 PM

This may seem silly but do I keep my oil squirters? I read somewhere that with the FM Wisecos you have to remove them? I got the non-FM 8.6:1 version.

Mazdaspeeder 12-06-2012 12:33 PM

For the SuperMiata damper, do I order without a trigger wheel? Car is a 2004 Mazdaspeed going to run Raverant MS2 enhanced.

Mazdaspeeder 12-12-2012 06:14 PM

7 Attachment(s)
Just wanted to thank everyone who participated and helped me through this. Engine is complete and I'm getting it friday morning.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1355354065

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1355354065

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1355354065

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1355354065

I also came across a bit of extra money so I pulled the trigger on a SuperMiata 4T wheel damper. Figure it can only help solidify this new motor.

Also got some other things to prep for more power, again, thanks to a lot of the info given to me here

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1355354065

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1355354065

Finally, through all of this, I found a vin plate on my oilpan. It didn't match the VIN of the car, so I ran a report. Wonder what happened to the original engine too

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1355354065

Braineack 12-13-2012 11:42 AM

whatever the case, you got a real low mileage motor put in.

Hungry-R 03-11-2013 12:21 PM

Why are people recommending FM stage 2 clutch when they are meant for over 300whp? Wouldn't it be be unnecessary heavy clutch pedal for his power level?
(I am asking because I am doing a build very close to the OP's and just ordered a FM stage 1 happy meal... Do I need to change to the stage 2 happy meal?)

Braineack 03-11-2013 01:07 PM

pedal feels stock and can handle almost anything you throw at it.


turn down the disrepect and stop questioning us.

Hungry-R 03-11-2013 01:29 PM

I don't mean to disrespect anyone.
I was wondering because I have ordered the stage 1 FM happy meal for my car that I am building with the similar power goals as the op.

Since people were recommending the stage 2 clutch, I was thinking maybe there was something wrong with the stage 1 clutch from FM that I can not seem to bring up by searching.

I was just going by what fm said on their site about stage 2 being

...for "Serious HP" cars only. Pedal effort is substantial, so if you don`t have 300 hp or more...
So the recommendation is that I should change my order from FM level 1 to FM level 2 happy meal?

Thank you for answering my noob questions...

18psi 03-11-2013 01:32 PM

if you really don't plan to exceed the 275whp the stg1 should be ok
if later you get the itch for more, and most do, then it won't hold up too long above that.

so basically yes and no

Braineack 03-11-2013 01:49 PM

Stg1 is fine. But driving both, I wouldn't call the FM2 effort substantial, I'd call it a little heavier. the ACT XT was substantial, the Clutchnet Dual-Diaphragm Stg3 was SUBSTANTIAL, the FM2...hardly noticed.

Lee04vr 03-12-2013 05:01 PM

Pedal pressure on the FM level 2 clutch is not bad at all anyone who thinks that is a heavy clutch pedal has never driven a cobra mustang.

Braineack 03-12-2013 05:35 PM

hell, even a Mustang GT.

Ryan_G 03-12-2013 05:39 PM

I DD with an FM2 clutch and I don't even mind it in heavy traffic. It is heavier than stock but you get use to it in no time and I think it has better feel to it, as in the point of engagement is much easier to feel in the pedal.

Mazdaspeeder 03-15-2013 11:23 PM

Car is done and while the clutch is stiffer, it's totally doable and once you get some miles on it, gets easier. Car runs great too and just got tuned for 12psi on the stock turbo while I wait for my EFR manifold to arrive. The fun continues!

psyber_0ptix 04-12-2013 07:56 PM

updates? I'm about to purchase a bunch of parts, and our builds are looking quite similar :D

timk 04-13-2013 08:36 AM

Did you have problems with the main studs and the MBSP?

Mazdaspeeder 04-13-2013 10:16 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Yes, the machine shop cut the MBSP like so to fit them. They also de-burred the MBSP for me :)

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1365862584

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1365862584

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1365862584


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