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Old 10-23-2012, 04:46 PM   #21
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Talk to Savington and go with 8.6:1 pistons. Do you want to be detonation limited or turbo limited?
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:56 PM   #22
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Talk to Savington and go with 8.6:1 pistons. Do you want to be detonation limited or turbo limited?
What do you mean by this?

I talked with TSE and might just reassemble with a stock turbo and go with their TSE kit EFR6258 when it comes out, I'll still get an MS2 tune right now and then retune for new turbo setup.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:59 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Mazdaspeeder View Post
I talked with TSE and might just reassemble with a stock turbo and go with their TSE kit EFR6258 when it comes out, I'll still get an MS2 tune right now and then retune for new turbo setup.
Going with the built motor now, old turbo setup, and tuning MS2 correctly is not a bad plan. Then when the TSE kit is released you will be ready to swap it on and go.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:03 PM   #24
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Talk to Savington and go with 8.6:1 pistons. Do you want to be detonation limited or turbo limited?
For 275-300whp, it'll hardly matter.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:04 PM   #25
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Do you want to be detonation limited or turbo limited or be a man and run E85? and save the planet too but not really
ftfy
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:12 PM   #26
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Going with the built motor now, old turbo setup, and tuning MS2 correctly is not a bad plan. Then when the TSE kit is released you will be ready to swap it on and go.
I've had this car since it was bone stock for almost 5 years and want to get many more out of it. If it means waiting, I will.

Savington recomended I tap and plug my oil pan now while it's off the car and then just install the new oil lines when I get the kit. As far as the TSE Damper, it's on backorder so I'll add that later as well.

The bummer is I'll need 2 tunes, and need to install all of this turbo **** on my own or pay a shop again.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:14 PM   #27
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don't tap your oil pan, get a bung welded to it. it's about a million times better.
do tap it for an oil temperature sensor though....
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:14 PM   #28
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For 275-300whp, it'll hardly matter.
I've tuned a few 9:1 cars and they are all det limited. In Texas we track our cars in 105*f heat, that's also where we tune them.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:15 PM   #29
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going with the built motor now, old turbo setup, and tuning ms2 correctly is not a bad plan. Then when the tse kit is released you will be ready to swap it on and go.
+1
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:16 PM   #30
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I've tuned a few 9:1 cars and they are all det limited. In Texas we track our cars in 105*f heat, that's also where we tune them.
Det limited at what, though? You're saying you can't hit 275whp in Texas on pump gas on a built 9:1 bottom end?
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:33 PM   #31
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Det limited at what, though? You're saying you can't hit 275whp in Texas on pump gas on a built 9:1 bottom end?
He's saying that the 8.6:1 motors produce more torque and have a greater safety margin than the 9:1 motors. You can run more timing on an 8.6:1 motor than a 9:1 motor, and the drop in compression and increase in timing advance produces more torque than running less timing and more compression.

Every single turbo motor we build is 8.6:1 for a reason.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:37 PM   #32
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Det limited at what, though? You're saying you can't hit 275whp in Texas on pump gas on a built 9:1 bottom end?
You can but you're going to have to do it wtih ~17-19psi on a GT2860rs and do it with ~18* at the spark-curve peaks while I did it with 12psi at 25* of spark with at least +6* of spark-headroom becuase I never, ever head detonation in my car. That way, when it's 105* out, and you have the tach hung at 6500rpm in 6th at TWS on the front-stretch, you know you get to drive the car home.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:39 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
He's saying that the 8.6:1 motors produce more torque and have a greater safety margin than the 9:1 motors. You can run more timing on an 8.6:1 motor than a 9:1 motor, and the drop in compression and increase in timing advance produces more torque than running less timing and more compression.

Every single turbo motor we build is 8.6:1 for a reason.
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
You can but you're going to have to do it wtih ~17-19psi on a GT2860rs and do it with ~18* at the spark-curve peaks while I did it with 12psi at 25* of spark with at least +6* of spark-headroom becuase I never, ever head detonation in my car. That way, when it's 105* out, and you have the tach hung at 6500rpm in 6th at TWS on the front-stretch, you know you get to drive the car home.

Gotcha. That makes sense.

I had forgotten that AIM told me that secret to power with a BP is as much timing as possible.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:48 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazdaspeeder View Post
I've had this car since it was bone stock for almost 5 years and want to get many more out of it. If it means waiting, I will.

Savington recomended I tap and plug my oil pan now while it's off the car and then just install the new oil lines when I get the kit. As far as the TSE Damper, it's on backorder so I'll add that later as well.

The bummer is I'll need 2 tunes, and need to install all of this turbo **** on my own or pay a shop again.
Savington is correct in saying that you should have your oil drain plumbed for the oil return fitting now. You can either drill and tap it and screw in the fitting, or have a shop weld the fitting on. Either works, I think welding is actually better, but I have had mine tapped for 5 years an never had an issue.

Installing the turbo hardware should not be that bad. Plan a whole weekend for it and you should be able to get everything swapped. As for tuning, I assume that you already had the MS2 tuned for the stock MSM setup or are you doing the initial install of that to?
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:08 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
Savington is correct in saying that you should have your oil drain plumbed for the oil return fitting now. You can either drill and tap it and screw in the fitting, or have a shop weld the fitting on. Either works, I think welding is actually better, but I have had mine tapped for 5 years an never had an issue.

Installing the turbo hardware should not be that bad. Plan a whole weekend for it and you should be able to get everything swapped. As for tuning, I assume that you already had the MS2 tuned for the stock MSM setup or are you doing the initial install of that to?
MS2 isn't even ordered yet, making sure he can accomodate all of my parts first. I'm gonna prep with those ID1000cc units now, again since everything is already apart. Then I'll go to Oracle Tuning, get a good tune with the stock turbo, and roll around easy a bit. Once TSE kit comes out, I'll be all prepped to bolt it on and take it back to Oracle for a revision for the new turbo and stuff.

My buddy works here: 1989-2005 Mazda Miata: JSC Speed

I'm going to get as much of the internals as possible from him. Can you guys browse through and recommend some things? I'm particularly confused on rods, some are within 2g, some within 1g. How important is that? Was also considering SCAT rods and supertech pistons (sold by 949racing). If through JSCSpeed, I was going to get the K1 or Eagle rods and possibly CP Pistons or Wiseco. How important is it to get that coating done on them?

Thanks for everyone's help thus far. It's nice to get so much information from one place.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:14 PM   #36
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Scat rods/stock 9.5:1 pistons worked fine in my build. No issues yet at 15psi but I can get 93 octane in the D.
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:53 PM   #37
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I get 93 here as well

More photos of the old now that all is disassembled. I have not cleaned these















Almost all of the pistons have this small wear on the sides



Comparison of the bad bore next to a not so bad bore

Attached Thumbnails
1.8L build, aiming for ~275whp-imag1360.jpg   1.8L build, aiming for ~275whp-imag1362.jpg   1.8L build, aiming for ~275whp-imag1363.jpg   1.8L build, aiming for ~275whp-imag1365.jpg   1.8L build, aiming for ~275whp-imag1364.jpg  

1.8L build, aiming for ~275whp-imag1366.jpg   1.8L build, aiming for ~275whp-imag1367.jpg   1.8L build, aiming for ~275whp-imag1369.jpg   1.8L build, aiming for ~275whp-imag1371.jpg  
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:33 AM   #38
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This oil pump?
Street/Strip Oil Pump Assembly (1991.5-2005) | Boundary Engineering

This Damper?
Harmonic Balancer Miata

These rods?
Scat Forged Connecting Rods Miata

These Pistons?
Supertech Pistons Miata

These Injectors?
Injector Dynamics fuel injectors - Miata

Best place to get headgasket and a complete engine gasket set?
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:43 AM   #39
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I got my complete engine gasket kit from MAZDASPEED MOTORSPORTS DEVELOPMENT - Home Page
These prices are about as good as you can get for factory/oem parts. Just have to have some race results to get an account. Oh and you usually have to call them to get the results accepted.

The only seal that I have had issue with is the valve stems. But that is a matter of cooking them rather than being bad. Also it wasn't until after I had built the engine that Viton ones became available (or I found out about them).

Last edited by mcfandango; 10-26-2012 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:01 PM   #40
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The stock MSM setup isn't as bad as everybody makes it out to be, especially on E85. I'm not sure you can get all the way to 300 with it. But I bet you can get close and put that planned budget into making the motor better.

edit for clarity. It CAN make good power but other stuff does spool quicker and have much higher power capability.
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