Adding mods NA, no power?
3 Attachment(s)
Hey Guys, wanted some extra eyes on this:
I've got a 99 NB1, 46k miles, completely stock with the exception of an NB2 header, and BP5A cam. To say I'm pretty disappointed is the understatement of the century. Here is the latest dyno. Attachment 229668 Below is an overlay of my best runs with airbox open from day 1, completely stock, even before tune up, and today, as well as best baseline runs that were done 2 months ago the week I bought the car, before I even tuned it up. Essentially no difference. Something doesn't add up here. Uncorrected numbers say 9 hp gain, but it was also August in Georgia and 17 degrees warmer when I did the first runs vs. the runs after mods. I fully expect to hear "get a turbo," but why would I have 0 gains from those two mods, which should be among the best mods for an nb1 motor? Attachment 229669 Attachment 229670 Any thoughts? I fully expect to hear "get a turbo," but why would I have 0 gains from those two mods, which should be among the best bang for the buck mods for an nb1 motor? |
Your august runs have a correction factor of 1.05 and the new ones have 1.00?
You sure you're comparing apples to apples here? |
n/a power mods are the biggest waste of money you can sink into a miata.
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Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S
(Post 1447730)
Your august runs have a correction factor of 1.05 and the new ones have 1.00?
You sure you're comparing apples to apples here?
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1447731)
n/a power mods are the biggest waste of money you can sink into a miata.
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You won't gain meaningful power on a Miata with a stock ecu, doubly so if you don't open up the motor.
I say this as someone who made 132.9779 or whatever whp on a Mustang dyno with my car, but my motor is probably a freak. Or the dyno was off. Or maybe i was wearing a special shirt that day. Point is... Brain is largely right. |
Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1447740)
You won't gain meaningful power on a Miata with a stock ecu, doubly so if you don't open up the motor.
I say this as someone who made 132.9779 or whatever whp on a Mustang dyno with my car, but my motor is probably a freak. Or the dyno was off. Or maybe i was wearing a special shirt that day. Point is... Brain is largely right. Thanks for the insight. I do plan to open the motor, if only to up compression by 1 or so. We'll see. I've got 93 by me, so hopefully with tuning I can at least notice a difference from the stock 87 tune. Most of the money will be spent on wheels and suspension shortly, just looking for any low-medium hanging fruit on the na front. Thanks! |
Originally Posted by nazarite
(Post 1447745)
Haha, I appreciate that. Special shirts ftw.
Thanks for the insight. I do plan to open the motor, if only to up compression by 1 or so. We'll see. I've got 93 by me, so hopefully with tuning I can at least notice a difference from the stock 87 tune. Most of the money will be spent on wheels and suspension shortly, just looking for any low-medium hanging fruit on the na front. Thanks! Example with where i'm at (Note: i never baselined my car): BP5A ecu Racing Beat header Hytech midpipe/"muffler" Skunk2 throttle body K&N Typhoon intake I'm still on the VICS manifold. I would expect additional gains on my car by installing a 5A intake cam (which sat on my shelf for 2 years, so naturally Monk and i installed it in my DD yesterday instead of the race car), and the Skunk2 intake manifold that just dropped. I'm also leaving a lot on the table by running the 5A ecu. The car continually drowns in fuel. The dyno chart actually spit out 128whp/108ftlbs, but wasn't scaled for RPM properly. So... 133whp on a Mustang. And it feels like it. My advice is to maybe throw a Megasquirt at it, but focus on making it handling in the meantime. Then decide how you want to make power. :) BPs are trash. |
Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1447746)
My advice is to maybe throw a Megasquirt at it, but focus on making it handling in the meantime. Then decide how you want to make power. :) BPs are trash.
My first real money will be spent here shortly on quality coils, wheels and tires. Again, just surprised to see 0 difference, assuming SAE corrections can be trusted. |
SAE themselves say accuracy better than 2% is difficult at best. With a 5% CF and two months of time between the tests, you're seeing your gains fall into the noise.
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How about the fact that adding better breathing to an engine with a stock ECU that can't do much about it just makes it run leaner? WOT is open loop. All the fuel the stock map is set to give is what you get. Make it breathe better and you get... nothing much more. Get a tunable ECU and you may get a few horsepeters more.
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Can't get extra power without more fuel. Fail aids like fuel pressure regulator or JDM ECU will do a little but you could probably get 10hp with a Megasquirt. Everyone already knows this though so you will likely just get some heavy wheels and fail to spin them.
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1. Listen to Savington about dyno numbers.
2. I honestly would not sink a lot of money into the NA build plans you're thinking of. 3. A well designed DIY intake and Racing Beat header are the best bang for buck. 4. You should get a Megasquirt 3 to tune the car (tune on E85 for more power). Everything else is marginal and you're better off going turbo or Rotrex or just plain spending the money on tires, suspension, aero or track days.
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1447762)
SAE themselves say accuracy better than 2% is difficult at best. With a 5% CF and two months of time between the tests, you're seeing your gains fall into the noise.
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Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast
(Post 1447868)
4. You should get a Megasquirt 3 to tune the car (tune on E85 for more power).
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1447762)
SAE themselves say accuracy better than 2% is difficult at best. With a 5% CF and two months of time between the tests, you're seeing your gains fall into the noise.
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1447771)
How about the fact that adding better breathing to an engine with a stock ECU that can't do much about it just makes it run leaner? WOT is open loop. All the fuel the stock map is set to give is what you get. Make it breathe better and you get... nothing much more. Get a tunable ECU and you may get a few horsepeters more.
Originally Posted by vitamin j
(Post 1447775)
Can't get extra power without more fuel. Fail aids like fuel pressure regulator or JDM ECU will do a little but you could probably get 10hp with a Megasquirt. Everyone already knows this though so you will likely just get some heavy wheels and fail to spin them.
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast
(Post 1447868)
1. Listen to Savington about dyno numbers.
2. I honestly would not sink a lot of money into the NA build plans you're thinking of. 3. A well designed DIY intake and Racing Beat header are the best bang for buck. 4. You should get a Megasquirt 3 to tune the car (tune on E85 for more power). Everything else is marginal and you're better off going turbo or Rotrex or just plain spending the money on tires, suspension, aero or track days. 2. Will sink as little as possible into it, got the Miata to tinker so I don't mind spending money on a hobby knowing full well the expected return, have a modded Evo for straight line go fast 3. Cool 4. Will do, And most of my Miata budget will be spent doing exactly that, thanks for the advice!
Originally Posted by pdexta
(Post 1447874)
I was tempted to go there earlier, but I feel like I'm always posting about the magic cornjuice. I seem to remember some posts from 949 about some really impressive n/a E85 gains with just a megasquirt, like something around 15whp? I don't think I documented anything, but I remember seeing some good gains going to E85 pre-turbo.
Think we can close this thread ha, thanks for all the replies everyone. |
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