Another "Rods-only" engine thread
*calling patsmx5*
My plan is to stick manley rods in my stock 99 block that has 42k on it. Buy FMs "big flex fuel kit," use e85, ID1000s, and max out my little gt2560. While I have the bottom end apart, my brain is thinking, "NEW RINGS? HONE WALLS? MIGHT AS WELL DO MAIN STUDS. WHILE IM AT IT BETTER STICK NEW BEARINGS IN THERE. HEAD STUDS...etc" Is any of that really necessary for an engine that really isn't worn? It has 42k on it. I bought it from an old guy who babied it every Sunday to get ice cream. And I average 1000 miles a summer. (This car will be used on the street 99% of the time. 1% at 1/4 mile) I think I can truly do rods only and the engine will still last another 40k at least. Thoughts? |
I would never ever re-use rings and not hone walls. Ever
Everything else is fine if you really want to keep it to the bare minimum. |
Since rings are about the only thing I could confidently clearance at home..I'll bite the bullet for Mr.18psi. As for honing...are u just talking one of those gadgets that goes on a drill for diy home use? Wouldn't the crank have to come out then? I don't like all that stuff..more chance for me to install incorrectly
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yes drill hone
no crank doesn't need to come out |
Honing is not a simple or easy thing to do correctly. You need to put a specific surface finish into the cylinder at a specific angle, while keeping the cylinder perfectly cylindrical to within ~0.0003" or so. If you do it wrong, the engine will either burn oil or have a huge amount of blowby because the rings never sealed up. If you think you can do that with a bottle hone on a cordless drill, go for it. I would never attempt that in a million years, because paying a professional to do it on a machine designed for the job will only cost you ~$100 or so, and then you know it's done correctly.
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1341973)
Honing is not a simple or easy thing. You need to put a specific surface finish into the cylinder at a specific angle, while keeping the cylinder perfectly cylindrical to within ~0.0003" or so. If you think you can do that with a bottle hone on a cordless drill, go for it. I would never attempt that in a million years, because paying a professional to do it on a machine designed for the job will only cost you ~$100 or so, and then you know it's done correctly.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" if the rings and cross hatching are in the condition that im guessing theyre in, they should have no problem sealing for another 40k....right? |
Wait, reusing bearings is kosher? That might tempt my scope-creep to flare up again...
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I would do main studs and head studs as a "while I'm in there" because they're easy bolt-ons, but then I probably wouldn't ever do a rods-only build.
--Ian |
There's a difference between a low budget backyard/garage build and a full on built engine from a company/shop.
Many, and I mean MANY here have successfully honed their shortblocks with no issues. But this obviously assumes you know what you're doing. If you don't, you gotta pay. I still stand by my statement of not re-using rings if you attempt this |
Originally Posted by codrus
(Post 1341980)
I would do main studs and head studs as a "while I'm in there" because they're easy bolt-ons, but then I probably wouldn't ever do a rods-only build.
--Ian I know on our LS motors rod bolts are not the best. Apr bolts are a nice upgrade but they change the tolerances. |
Originally Posted by OGRacing
(Post 1341984)
Doesn't using stronger main studs change the main to crank clearance?
I know on our LS motors rod bolts are not the best. Apr bolts are a nice upgrade but they change the tolerances. The reason I dont want to change anything besides rods is the fact that there are too many clearances, tolerances, variables, etc that can and will be out of spec if I attempt |
You've done a comp/ld test and know for a fact your rings are flawless?
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Originally Posted by OGRacing
(Post 1341984)
Doesn't using stronger main studs change the main to crank clearance?
I know on our LS motors rod bolts are not the best. Apr bolts are a nice upgrade but they change the tolerances. I also don't know that I buy the theoretical argument. I'm a software guy, not an ME, but I would think a main stud can be stronger without necessarily giving more clamping force. If the clamping force is the same, then I don't see how the clearances change. --Ian |
I like to do "everything or nothing" so i would never just put rods in. Fully built, or unopened engine, but that's just me.
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1341996)
You've done a comp/ld test and know for a fact your rings are flawless?
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My main concern would be doing all that work and spending quite a bit of money (since all the gaskets won't be exactly free), and then having one of the rings not re-seal or find out you have to rip apart everything and do it all over.
I guess that's where the slippery slope really comes into play. |
Originally Posted by LownSlow616
(Post 1341977)
... If I were to send the block to a machine shop for a hone, I'd do an over bore for bigger pistons as well..
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it".. Don't over think it, 42K is very low mileage. |
Originally Posted by NBoost
(Post 1342026)
I'm scratching my head.. You don't need an overbore. Get a proper hone (if it even needs it, cross-hatching on these blocks lasts damn near forever), new rings, new gaskets, re-assemble. And your rods of course.
Don't over think it, 42K is very low mileage. |
Originally Posted by OGRacing
(Post 1341984)
Doesn't using stronger main studs change the main to crank clearance?
I know on our LS motors rod bolts are not the best. Apr bolts are a nice upgrade but they change the tolerances. OP, at a bare minimum you're going to need rods, a set of rings, and a bottle hone. I tried doing rods only, reuse rings and not hone, and it burned tons of oil. Redid it with new rings and honed it, and it worked very well. Most shops will hone a bock for 10-20 bucks/hole, it's really cheap if you don't want to do it yourself. I've done it myself, and paid others to do it. |
Originally Posted by codrus
(Post 1341998)
I have heard people claim that you need to line bore the main caps to use main studs, OTOH many people have installed them without doing that and I've never seen anyone say it was a problem. I've done it on two engines now, no problems.
I also don't know that I buy the theoretical argument. I'm a software guy, not an ME, but I would think a main stud can be stronger without necessarily giving more clamping force. If the clamping force is the same, then I don't see how the clearances change. --Ian |
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