Anyone ran E98?
 

I have been searching and have not been able to find much on E98 in these cars. I just talked to a local source that sells 55 gallon drums for a little over $300. Is it a huge step from E85 to 98? Obviously need BIG injectors and fuels system but seems like it could be pretty cool. I would set up secondary fuel and spark maps. I am betting gas mileage would be horrible.

Curious: what specifically it will achieve over e85.
Considering that even e30 will get you to MBT, and also considering that you still need gasoline pumping through your system to keep it from doing nasty things

Nothing. Just go fill up 55 gallon drums with e85 if you need it. Would probably be cheaper.

Thats what I was curious about. If there is a benefit. This place sells E85 and 98 for the same price.

From what I've read vlad hit a good point with the part about needing gasoline. It lubes stuff in ways that alcohol doesnt. (there is a dirty joke in there somewhere)

You have to go to extreme limits to get e85 to knock.

Jays garage is like $3.00 a gallon for e85. Show up with a 55 gallon drum and spend half the price.

That your EFR plan? Jays?

I'll run e85 for some dyno queen numbers, but no way i'll daily it. I also track this car in california, and eastern oregon. And washington soon.

You could buy E98 and add as needed if your tuned for real E85 and you get a weak batch (I've heard it fluctuates down to E70 at times) for peace of mind

To know what concentration of Ethanol you are running would require the flex fuel sensor. At that point just run multiple tables so it can change fuel based on the ethanol content.

Yeah I thought about that. Or even blend it down a little more if you would like. Either way you need a flex sensor and very good grasp of tuning to make that work.

A lot of talk when it comes to E85 is that you can run all of the timing. But I think a huge possible benefit to E98 or possibly blend E90 could be ditching the intercooler. I am going to set my car up with tried and true methods until I know what I am doing but I think in the future I am going to try and figure out a ethanol non intercooler type set up at medium boost. I have read a bunch of threads involving water injection and no intercooler and they all seam to end up with a intercooler. Most of the E85 threads tend to be on cars that were already set up traditional and then E85 was added later.

I don't think there is enough additional cooling alone from the ethanol to run without an IC, but I could be completely wrong.

Do you think it would depend on the amount of boost and turbo?

Why do you want to not run an intercooler? The pain and hassle of getting your own gas. Or spending $6 a gallon. Will easily pay for an intercooler when you are getting 30% worse gas mileage.

I already picked one up and do plan on using one but if I really like the idea of not using one unless I have to. Simpler pipping. Less couplers. Less clutter in the front of the car and lower weight. I am by no means saying this thought process is better or for anyone. Intercoolers are great but if I can get away with 275 at the wheels running E85ish without an intercooler and have the detonation safety of high octane I am going to try it. I wouldn't try this with a track car though. This is me just fucking around with a concept.

You are way right on the ecomics of this though. I have a flat bed trailer so it wouldn't be too hard to just get two drums a month of Ethonal. My Miata is only half my daily driver. I use my Landcruiser most of the time because I keep my meal prep in the fridge. I also have a Supermoto bike I use to get to school. I would never consider this if it was my true daily. I would just leave it on gas and move on.

I mean Tom@FFS is running close to 300whp with E85 and no intercooler. I don't want to know what his IAT's are though.

AIT's don't matter nearly as much with e85 because its so hard to get it to detonate.

ditching the intercooler is mind blowingly idiotic, and Tom, as we all know, is a moron

for the record, I've ACTUALLY tried this with Toms FFTHUPERCHARGER. cause when I call someone a moron, and their whole forced induction method moronic, I like to speak from experience.

200-220F at cruise, 250-280F at 8psi of boost, on e85, and car made absolutely no friggen power cause it was ingesting lava

we also tried the no-intercooler setup on e85 on other cars, and lost massive torque and power.

so no. just no

you need cold/dense air to make power. even on e85

Good look. This is what I needed to hear.

I believe I might have figured out how you can run E98 without an IC. You will need an extra injector AND

Attachment 183282

I stacked 8 powercard pro's inline and made 6900hp with -200F IAT's

had to install block warmer to keep the engine from freezing. had condensation on the turbine

Bahahahahahaha. Sold.

There are some Power Cards for sale in the classifieds right now.

But for now I am going to go with this to be extra safe.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e2b8d8f97.jpeg

that will get you started. you'll need another one in the rear too
(that's what he said)

I was (sort of) thinking the same thing. Tune for E85, add E98 when E85 is actually less to richen it up. Problem is that a 55gal drum of E98 is ~$600 delivered to CA.

Are there other options to richen a low ethanol content "E85" like 98% denatured alcohol?

see post #2.

also it would richen up with less e content. opposite with more. so it's naturally a "fail safe"

As 18psi has said, even with little amount of ethanol, the benefits are high and it actually gets to a diminishing return the higher you go after 30. So if you have access to E98, mix it up with gas unless you are getting it cheaper than gas!

I did see "MBT achieved at ~E70", but not sure how to integrate this with the tune.

i.e. if we tune for E85 then blend the maps back for lower E content. So the tune isn't more aggressive at E85 vs E70? Or that an aggressive E70 tune reaches MBT and therefore there's nothing more to gain up to E85?

Both will get you to, and well past MBT.

Meaning you really don't get to run any more spark with 85 vs 70, cause you're already running ALLOFIT

The only real difference is you're about a point leaner with 85 and your fueling needs to accommodate this.

Is there any real data on the relationship between ethanol content and knock prevention/timing advance.

I have heard 3rd hand that the guys at English Racing tune flex fuel very conservative. I.E. as soon as you don't have a certain amount of ethanol (E70? E80?) they dump a bunch of timing out. But I hate information like that, impossible to trust.

I assume you can tune the fuel mix quite linearly because you are just trying to hit ideal AFR's, but I don't know if timing follows the same curve.

I don't really think there can be a "universal chart" like that.

There is e85, then there is e85, hundreds of pumps with varying content and purity and quality, and the bottom line is it's way better to be conservative and do what ER does than to risk it with a more linear transition.

But that's all subjective opinion.

I don't know much about how this stuff is regulated btw, but I bet it's.......not

Like, companies just kinda run what they think is right, and as long as actual content of e is at or higher than advertised, they're "good"

seems like you cowboys have almost got a consistent flex sensor "path" figured out, I'll be reading that more when Marcello comes down to the Sac and we try to get his newly rebuilt MS3 to run it

The only place around that we have e85 is called Jay's garage. And they cater to the "enthusiast". I'd be willing to be that it is someone constant, they seem like the kind of place that would pride themselves in that and advertise it.

I have the hardware in, and working. But have not tuned it yet. The hardware was easy, the tuning is a little more interesting. There are a few ways to do it.

Ouch..... in SD we get E85 for well under $2 bucks a gallon...... I was kinda thinking of going that route just because of how cheap and available it is around here.

this could be a good compromise. If e30ish is where you cap out on timing then it would make sense to keep it at those levels. If I have the science right the fuel map would need less compensation and the injectors would be taxed less. Also slightly better gas mileage. The major inconvenience would be the mixing but if you were to get a drum of e98 and keep a few gallons in a separate jug in the trunk you could just get whatever gallons of e10 plus 2 gallons of e98 equal 30 and just verify you are close by monitoring your sensor. I'm sure there is a tolerance of a few points.