Calling ALL Deatschwerks Owners!!!! Too short?
 

Just went to put my 600's in this afternoon and found out they are about 3/8's of an inch shorter than my stockers? What's the trick? Or maybe I was sent the wrong ones?

Here are some pics for you guys to browse over...
https://www.miataturbo.net/gallery/f...injec__002.jpg
https://www.miataturbo.net/gallery/f...injec__001.jpg

Maybe get rid of the plastic spacers that go between the rail and the manifold? (they are sandwiched between bolts that hold rail down)

Dustin,
I tried that, but the bolts then bottom out in the head...
Surely if you needed to leave out the spacers and get shorter bolts that would be mentioned somewhere. Hopefully they will get back to me soon, I emailed Mark @ Deatschwerks yesterday. I'm thinking that they were boxed wrong???

It's definitely possible they shipped you the wrong ones, but you might need shorter bolts as well.

When I tried to use my RC injectors without the spacers they poured fuel all over my garage.

I am pretty sure they shipped you some subaru injectors. Subaru inujectors are EXACTLY the same amount shorter than the miata ones, just like in the picture. Those are blue as well, and look like 06+ wrx injectors.

my 600s were quite much shorter too. they moved a ton in the rail but still work fine and dont leak. I called deathschwerks and they said its normal.

Hmm, where are your pintle caps?

I don't think those are supposed to have pintle caps... I could be totally wrong though. Hopefully I'll hear from them today.

Mine are the exact same, I had to pull out the isolators and use different bolts, work fine now though.

so i'm getting ready to order 600's too... i'm not sure how they can be called "direct fit" if you have to remove the isolators and whatnot to make it work...

Mine were direct fit. Pulled old, reused isolators, bolt in. No drama.

If those are subaru injectors (as I'm almost sure they are) they have a different spray pattern as well as no pintle caps. I WOULD NOT use them until you heard from DW.

Deatschwerks Injectors should be plug and play. We are contacting flipt86 and will resolve the situation.

Top spacers are incorrect, sending me the right ones. Thanks for contacting me today, nice to get ahold of a company with good customer service. :) Thanks again.

glad to hear that its getting taken care of :D

We take our customer service very seriously.

This is the first person I've ever heard of having any issue with the injectors. Deatschwerks are definitely the injectors I recommend for all the Adaptronics. The 600's idle flat at 15.2:1, and have plenty of pulsewidth up top for power.

http://www.boundaryengineering.com/deatschwerks.php

just left a voicemail with travis, i'm having the same problem now with mine. guess i wont be running this weekend :vash:

so i put some thin metal washers between the rail and the head, and used the plastic spacers above the rail to keep everything centered. everything seems to fit fine, but i have to finish wiring up the MS again so i can apply fuel pressure and check for leaks.

i ended up taking one end of the plastic isolators and putting them on the belt sander and sanding them to about half thickness... has worked so far, but i'm not really happy about it. I told travis about the problem after they sent me the new spacers...

mine seem fine at this point, i idled the car up to full temp and drove it slowly up and down the street once. running fine and no leaks. i'm waiting for axle nuts from toyota so i couldnt really beat on it or drive fast lol

The set I have in my 1.6 are short like that as well. I left out the spacers and they haven't leaked yet (4 months). I couldn't get a response from DW so I used them.

I've been able to get them to idle at ~16.5.

its been running about 200 miles now, no leaks at the injectors. idle is no problem, very pleased!

in other news, some NPT fittings on my fuel rail that had been installed and untouched for 2 years randomly started leaking yesterday. all set now though.

I need to know how many of you have had a problem, please see this thread in my vendor forum
I will get this resolved asap
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t39928/#post464498

Uhmmm.... sorry if I completely missed it, but why has no one mentioned that you received NB injectors instead of NA ones.

all i know is that i ordered 94-97 injectors which should fit, and they were too short. i know nothing of the NB motor or its injectors, as i do not have one :P

You got sent the wrong ones mate.
NA injectors and NB injectors look profoundly different, as made stunningly obvious in the original post.

Send them back, get the vendor to send you the correct ones, simple.

I have no idea why you all have gone through all the trouble of putting in spacers, removing the plastic heat-sinks (which is an important part by the way) when it's obvious the two injectors are completely different by design.

And as for the need for 600cc injectors.....

So running my rx7 550's at ~80% duty cycle and wishing to run a couple more pounds of boost doesn’t indicate a need for 600's?

I'll replace the steel washers with some sort of heat resistant composite ones, thanks for the tip on heat insulation I didn’t even think of that.

You can use a NB injectors in an NA. They work just fine, and are both the same length.

Correct, and I stand corrected ;)

Here is a photo that I took earlier today to prove it:

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5407/09102009245.jpg

So you guys definitely got the wrong part.

As someone else suggested earlier, they may be WRX injectors, but then again, I also heard WRX injectors are direct fit. :facepalm:

therieldeal, I wasn't referring to you when I made the 600cc comment. You forget that the original poster is flipt86 which, and Im just going by his sig, has a mildly modded engine.

And I bought 600's because I don't like buying parts more than once if I can help it... I just bought a stock longblock today... My internals are coming over the winter. Do it once, with plenty of headroom. We all know how power hungry we get.

More 600cc Injector Length Issues
 

I haven’t seen a definitive answer here about injector length problems, so I assumed that everyone solved their length issues. Now I have a similar concern with the Deatschwerks 600cc injectors that I received for my 2002 1.8 so I need to revive the discussion.

When I received the 600’s they were about 1/8” shorter than the stockers, measured from the bottom of the lower isolator (at the head end of the injector) to the upper end of the injector tip, just above the o-ring. See photo. Did not get a comparison photo with stock injector. The upper isolator, however, was twice as long (thick) as the stocker. When I installed the 600’s the fit was very tight because the longer isolators contacted the fuel rail socket earlier and had to compress much more to allow the fuel rail to bolt down completely. The car started and ran, but I later had a great deal of trouble tuning the idle with my Adaptronic, even with Travis’ help. Idle was very erratic - one minute it idled well, the next minute it was all over the place. I looked for vacuum leaks with no success, but didn’t inspect the fuel rail. Finally, I pulled the plug on the ECU/600cc injector install and reverted back to stock ecu and injectors for a driving trip I had to make in the Miata. Upon removal of the 600’s I found two of the upper isolators were crushed and split.

I think I understand that the upper isolator simply acts as a dust boot. The fuel seal is provided by the o-ring at top and the lower isolator/doughnut at the bottom which is compressed into the socket in the head by the pressure exerted by the fuel rail socket in contact with the hard upper end of the injector. The fuel seal at the bottom may not be critical, but it seems to me that the lower seal is necessary to prevent vacuum leaks and/or pressure leaks while on boost since the lower end of the injector should feel the same pressures that the manifold experiences. Does this sound correct?

If this is correct, then a 1/8” shorter injector would result in much less pressure being exerted on the lower isolator/doughnut. Deatschwerks says that the lower isolator can absorb 1/8” more compression, but my point that 1/8” less compression might not result in any compression. Maybe it could be the source of my vacuum leak? Of course I will inspect and test it thoroughly when I reinstall the 600’s, but I am not ready to reinstall them yet. I am not convinced that Deatschwerks sent me the correct injectors. They seemed very vague about it on the phone. They never really confirmed that I had the correct ones. They felt that the difference in length was not significant.

What do you think? Has the length question been definitively answered and I just missed it? Also, could someone provide measurements of a stock injector (2002 model if that matters) from the bottom of the lower isolator/doughnut to the top of the injector? In my rush to leave town I installed the stockers without recording that measurement and I am now relying on memory for the length.

Sorry this post is so long.

I measured 70mm. My injector is from a '94 Protege (1.8BP).

--Ferdi

Thanks, Ferdi. My 600's measured 66.5mm (2.75") compared to your 70mm (2.75") which indicates that my 600's are, in fact, 1/8"shorter. My memory was about right after all. Thanks for the help.

BTW, your sig says 343 whp on your Protege. That must be a wild beast.

I don't know how else I can say this:
flipt86, therieldeal, et al received the WRONG injectors, and unfortunately, so did you Norm.
Did you see the photo I took of NA and NB injectors?

The others have played around with different size washers, spacers, filing down spacers, not using spacers, etc etc, to FORCE them to fit, and that is just ridiculous.

My experience with goods I bought from US retailers has been exceptional. If something is wrong with a product I purchased (which has been only a couple of times out of the dozens of things I bought from the US), they go out of their way to rectify the problem or replace the parts, and they have been very curteous.

This issue of injector length is really baffling me.
Wrong product = replacement or refund. Why is it not that simple in this instance?

Staff from the company in question are active members of this forum and their silence speaks volumes to me.

I make no apologies for having a "rant", but this is a very serious issue in my opinion for the simple fact that if you have misfitting injectors, you run a very high risk of fire.
I'm only looking out for fellow enthusiasts' safety here.

end of rant

:2cents:

:)

Sorry, I'm going to have to continue my rant as I just took a look at flipt86's photos and what he/she wrote.

Norm, they gave you wider top "spacers" (whatever they are called) in order so the fuel injector sits further out of the fuel rail and thus effectively increasing it's length. Obviously they know the length is incorrect.

Although the O-ring is the main seal against leakage, the top of the injector MUST sit flush in the fuel rail. The reason why the top spacer broke is, as you mentioned, because it's too wide and when you tried to tighten everything back up, you are forcing the injector into the fuel rail hole (because the top edge is not yet sitting flush) and thus squashing the wider washer until it cracks.


Allow me to quote:

Ockham's Razor : is the principle proposed by William of Ockham in the fourteenth century: ``Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate'', which translates as ``entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily''.

In other words, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

Please do not try to put these back in. Please take them back.

[Edit]

Here is a photo I just took of spare NA8 injectors, Nippon Denso part# 195500-2180:

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9089/dsc01966jl.jpg

As you can see, I can confirm ftjandra's 70mm length from top edge of injector to bottom edge of isolator spacer dougnut.

I can see a "Denso" name on your injectors, is there no part number?

Ok I think I figured out what happened.

Norm has a 02, but he received injectors for a ~96. I have a ~96 equivalent, but I received injectors for a ~02. In both cases the injectors themselves are actually identical, just the top spacers are different. The top spacers that I received were much thinner, they looked like the stock top spacers.

The problem I have is this: even if I had gotten the right spacers (the ones Norm had), they would "correct" the fitment, but greatly reduce the distance that the o-ring groove extends into the fuel rail. On my custom fuel rail, the injector bores are slightly counter-sunk, and I fear that the o-rings may not seal correctly. That would be a real hazard.

I think I am going to stick with the setup I have now... it seems to be working just fine. I may replace the new thin washers/spacers with some sort of composite insulating washer, but other than that I will leave it alone.

Aside from this fitment issue the injectors are working great... it idles better than it ever did with the RX7 550's, but that may have been due to the relatively unknown opening time of a 20 year old OEM injector.

I think you are correct, OZMX-5, about the injectors being "wrong" or at least not "right". I also agree that Deatschwerks' silence here speaks volumes. I am at a disadvantage because I know nothing about injectors and I am dealing with a company that is supposed to be the "experts". That is why I have asked for some other forum member comments to make sure I understand how the injectors are supposed to fit before making an argument to the supplier.

Something that Mike at Deatschwerks said on the phone may explain why some of our members injectors have worked better than others. He explained that they have to group injectors into specification ranges that allow some variation so that a larger number of units can fit several different applications. In other words, not every injector is specific to that application, it may also fit other applications while not replacing stock injector fitment perfectly on any of them. This concept might work fine for injectors with o-rings at both ends, as some axial play may not cause a problem, expecially if the play is filled with a pliant rubber grommet. But for injectors requiring some axial compression to seal at the bottom, this may not be a good idea. My theory is that some of us may have received correct length injectors and some may have received varying lengths, apparently shorter than stock by different amounts - 1/8" to 3/8" by my observation. We may all be getting rebuilt injectors from the box of "one size sorta fits all".

By the way, I think the Deatschwerks injectors are certainly rebuilt, not new injectors built for our cars. I inspected mine with a magnifying glass to identify the part number. I saw some generic moulded-in numbers and one recessed area where a series of numbers (probably the original part numbers) had been obliterated, apparently by a hot object. This was exactly the same on all four injectors. I reported all these observations to Deatschwerks in an email and they ignored the information.

Some injectors may seal better at the bottom end simply by luck. Upon close inspection, I found that the lower isolator/doughnut is slightly tapered such that the diameter at the top of the isolator is slightly larger than the bottom diameter. On some of my injectors the isolator would stick in the head socket and some would come out with the injector while trial fitting. The fit on the injector is reasonably tight, so maybe a seal is achieved in some cases and not in others even without proper axial compression from the fuel rail.

I think many buyers "adjust" their injectors to fit simply because schedule sometimes is tight and the return process could take a week or more. In my case, I have no reason to believe I would receive better fitting injectors if I did return them. I will have to consider rigging mine too if I can become confident of the adjustment.

The only way to "increase" the effective length of the injector is to use longer lower isolators or space them out by the length shortage. For injectors 3/8" too short I would not like the idea, but for 1/8" shortage how about a 1/8" thick steel spacer located inboard of the lower isolator? The compressed isolator would seal against the bottom and wall of the injector socket in the head and would seal around the barrel of the lower end of the injector. Any feedback from you guys would be appreciated.

I wish I had spent just a little more for RC550's.

Norm

Norm - I havent had a single issue with them sealing against the head, even at 23+ pounds of boost its working just fine. yours started leaking because the over-crushed incorrectly sized top spacers failed. i'm sure with the thinner upper spacers, yours would be good to go.

the problem with spacing them out from the head is that you will be making the spray pattern worse and worse as the spray will come in contact with the walls of the injector bore.

Norm, get a refund.
Have a time-out for yourself, have a good think, and ascertain what is most important, getting your car up and running ASAP, or your safety.

Take a look at their website. They rave on over and over again about how great their process is, and stress "DROP IN FITMENT" numerous times. On the first page of this thread someone stated:

"We take our customer service very seriously".

Here in Australia, whenever a contract between a buyer and seller becomes sour, we have a Federal system called a Small Claims Tribunal. It's pretty quick, efficient, and fair, and I can only assume that you guys have something similar.
This case is very simple,
- you gave them money for a specific product, trusting their professionalism in providing you the correct goods, you live up to your part of the contract
- they have a duty of care, as industry professionals, to provide you with EXACTLY the goods you paid for
- vendor sent goods, BUT goods are not what was requested
- contract fail on vendor's end
- buyer has a right to take action

Think of it this way, if you were to pay for 17" wheels from, say, Tirerack, and you received 15" wheels.
There is no issue with fitment as 15" and 17" wheels fit exactly the same, the only difference is size.
What would you do?


I feel that I have said enough on this issue.
If you don't give these injectors back, you are only perpetuating this problem for future customers.

Above all, please be careful mate.

PS: If you will allow me to give my experience with a product that did not work properly.
In short,
- I bought a MegaSquirt PNP from DIYAutotune.
- I corresponded with Matt Cramer over a couple of weeks trying to eliminate possible causes.
- We came to an agreement that there is a faulty connection on the PCB.
- Matt instructed me to send the unit back for them to have a look and fix, and if they can't fix it, they'll send me a new one.
- It took the team at DIYAutotune 9 days, starting from when I sent the unit back, to receive, fix, and return the unit to me. Keep in mind I live in Australia!
- They reimbursed me for the cost of sending the unit back, and it has been faultless since.

THAT is customer service. (Thank you again Matt and DIYAutotune)

You are all correct, there has been no resolution. Like OZ, the vendors silence speaks volumes to me. They posted in their vendor forum asking for emails and I and therieldeal both replied. To my knowledge no one has heard back from them. It seems like they are passing off an injector that will work with modifications and some crossing of the fingers as a plug and play end all sollution. This is what I have a problem with, that and the utter lack of communication with the attitude that it is no big deal.

P.S., the injectors are definately rebuilt, the same original part numbers were ground off of mine. It is of my opinion that these maybe upgraded and re-flowed/rebuilt subaru injectors that they are selling to the miata community... I do not know for sure though.

Their website advertises 100% new injectors with 100% drop-in fitment and "...no connectors or adapters needed".

I have not talked to Deatschwerks since the middle of last week, and I did not request my money back or replacement injectors since I had not concluded that their product was not usable. The fact that some forum members have successfully used these injectors clouds the issue. I would like to hear some discussion from Deatschwerks on this subject. I will email them, reference this thread in case they haven't picked up on the chatter, and ask them to post some discussion here. I actually bought my injectors from Travis. I have emailed him to get his take on the subject.

You guys should do a little research outside of the Miata community about this brand of injectors.

Alright, so I actually got to talk to Mike Deatsch over there at Deatschwerks for about an hour and half today. This is what I was to understand.

All sealing occurs not in the crush direction, but from the sides by the O-rings.

The crush piece was recently changed to this current piece to make one injector fit all years of Miata. The crush pieces are actually not responsible for anything but keeping the injector "down in the saddle." If you removed the crush piece, the injector should function the same, but as another member guessed that could cause the spray pattern to get a little upredictable as it bounced off everything to get to the runner.

The original injectors that I recieved from Deatschwerks seem to be slightly different from these. I have a much more rigid and shorter engagement piece that sits ontop of the injector. Mine are a little loose, maybe 1/32inch of travel, but that would be normal. You couldn't have the part mechanically pressing in the injector, but at the same time the rubber seen in Norm's motor looks to be an ultra soft rubber. I would think ideal engagement would be of a harder rubber with more care taken to get a different spacer for each year that requires a different hieght. That was my opinion not Mike's.

I think to test this what we need is for the year in question to have them atleast partially installed and really see if any seals on the side are broken by the up and down movement.

I don't think it would hurt anything for that gromet to be split like that, but its not what you want to see upon removing a set of injectors you spent good money on, and I think it definitely warrants being investigated further.

My appologies Norm for not getting back with you earlier. I just got in, and now its kind of late to call.

did anyone read my post? lol

it seems like short spacer = ~02 miata
longer spacer = ~96 miata

i dont know the exact year splits but i know that my car interchanges with the ~96 miata, as S5 rx7 injectors are a direct fit.

My mistake - deatschwerks 600cc injectors fit my ‘02 perfectly!!
 

Well, I think I have a handle on the Deatschwerks injector length issue! You can get the summary of the results in this paragraph and read on for the long-ass detailed story if you want. In my particular case the whole injector length/crushed upper isolator issue was due to fuel rail spacers that fell out unbeknownst to me while installing the Deatschwerks 600cc injectors!! After replacing the missing spacers the Deatschwerks injectors fit perfectly. They are, in fact, a little shorter than stock injectors, but with stock fuel rail hardware and the correct upper isolators, they fit as well as stock. I have to retract everything I previously said about Deatschwerks injectors not fitting properly.

Holy shit, I’m pretty embarrassed, but finding that the problem does not lie with one of the most available injector sources we have is a good thing.

I have always consulted a shop manual before starting a new wrenching activity that I had no experience with, especially something like changing injectors, to get a good picture of what I’ll run into. This time, however, I was in a big hurry, had the help of a good friend with whom I’d built engines together, and we dove into the injector swap without any preparation. This was the first big mistake. Apparently, the three fuel rail spacers fell off unnoticed and we buckled everything back down without them. I had not known to look for them (being a dumbass for not reviewing the manual) and spacers never crossed my mind. The reduced fuel rail height, about 3/16”, was enough to crush the upper isolator on two of the injectors.

The 600cc injectors worked and I had no reason to suspect a problem until I had to swap back to stock injectors and discovered the damaged isolators. Even after reinstalling the stockers and finding the fitment very tight, it still didn’t occur to me that something more general was wrong. This was the second big mistake. I had never installed Miata injectors before so I had no reference to how tight things should fit. I made the assumption that the shorter 600cc injectors (1/8” shorter) used extra-long isolators to make up for mismatch in length and that created the problem. Having read on this forum that other Deatschwerks users had received what seemed like too-short injectors, this all seemed to make sense. I emailed and telephoned Deatschwerks directly, but didn’t get to talk to someone who really knew the details of the Miata application. At my request they did send me two different sets of upper isolators of different lengths, but that contact left me feeling like Deatschwerks wasn’t interested in solving the real problem.

So I posted on this original thread about Deatschwerks injector length and got numerous replies of experiences ranging from injectors that were much too short to smooth installations with no problems. The discussion stirred up some Deatschwerks bashing, especially since Deatschwerks offered no clarifications during this discussion and had not gotten to the bottom of the issue brought up by the OP either.

Finally, after I emailed every contact name I could find at Deatschwerks website again to request their input to this issue, I got a call from David Deatsch on Friday. David explained the development process for the Miata injector application, the proper way to measure “effective” injector length, and the way the design of the application provides for one injector body to fit all year Miatas. In that discussion David mentioned that missing spacers under the fuel rail could cause the appearance that the upper isolators were too long and therefore would crush when everything was tightened down. A light went off in my head because that would explain every problem I had experienced. Sure enough, I checked for the spacers, they were missing, and I actually found all three of them scattered between my shop floor, my garage floor, and one still lodged below the intake manifold after driving the car on a 1500 mile trip last weekend! After replacing the spacers the installation of the Deatschwerks 600cc injectors proceeded without a hitch. The fitment seems perfect.

Here is what I think I learned from David Deatsch:
1. He insists that the injectors are 100% new from Denso, although they were not made specifically for Miatas.
2. The injector body total length is, in fact, slightly shorter than the stock Miata injector (by about 1/8”). It is the closest available match in length from Denso in 600cc capacity and the correct electrical connector.
3. The Denso part number is purposely obliterated by Deatschwerks because they do not want to use the Denso part number. They have not found a suitable method for applying their unique part number, but realize that they need to do so.
4. The “effective” length of an injector is measured from the base of the lower seal to the top of the upper isolator. Selection of the proper length isolator is important to assure a proper fit for the specific Miata year model. See attached photo of both my stock 2002 injector and my DW 600cc injector. I didn’t have an early stock injector but you can refer to a photo in an earlier post in this thread that the location of the important elements appears to be the same for early and late injectors.
5. The fuel rail does not make direct mechanical contact with the top of the injector and does not impart a load to the injector to make the injector seal at the head, except for the effect of the fuel pressure. Axially, the o-ring end floats freely inside the fuel rail bore. (I had misunderstood this in the initial conversation with Deatschwerks.)
6. The fitment is, in fact, 100% drop-in for stock applications. The injectors are designed to fit stock fuel rails with all stock hardware in place. Any fuel rail spacers that have been removed or lost will result in poor fitment. See attached photos of loose fuel rail with center spacer in place. This will be old news for experienced guys, but maybe a fellow noob will find it helpful. Don’t lose these spacers. Another photo shows the spacer with the injectors to illustrate how much extra crush was placed on the injectors with the spacers missing. The stock injectors’ upper isolators were mashed and deformed some, too.

In my mind the above explains and resolves all the identified issues with Deatschwerks injectors that I had. At this point, I am completely satisfied with fitment of my Deatschwerks injectors. I bought them largely because they would be “plug-n-play” and they are exactly that. All my issues have been resolved and the design of the Deatschwerks injector explained. With regard to my 2002 application, the Deatschwerks design approach seems sound and I apologize for my part in any Deatschwerks bashing that has occurred due to my dumbass mistake.

I would make one suggestion to Deatschwerks. It would have been great to have a set of all the available upper isolators and some installation instructions in the box with the injectors explaining the “effective length” concept and how to select which ones to use for my particular model year. That could have saved a lot of misunderstanding.

--Norm

Norm, this may be true for you, and I'm glad you figured out your problem, but for some of us, it was not that simple. Not saying I regret my purchase, but for some, minor modifications are required. Injector lengths vary depending on the year, point in case your 2002 vs my 95.

So Norm pretty much summed it up. I'm not exactly sure whats going on with these injectors yet. They were direct fit for my 94, Norm's 02 Stein's 99 Vlad's 00? but there are still some people with problems. Maybe it was a few confused shipments? I've sold alot of these, and only a couple of people seem to have had issues. This makes me think it was an error in install, or an error in shipment. (Definitely not pointing fingers at the buyers, but thats the only 2 answers we have to the what went wrong.)

I'm not sure how I could have screwed up the install....the tips of the injectors wouldn't seat with the factory spacers. Removed the spacers and the injectors seal nicely. I'll try to remember to check the upper spacer and see if it might be too short.

I was putting a little maybe in there about improper install. Most of you guys know you way around a wrench better than just about anyone. I'm just saying I test fitted the product and thoroughly tested it on my 94 before I passed it onto the market. If there was a fit problem and it wasn't install I just have to believe its just a mixed up shipment.

TurboRoach, for you and anyone else who had to remove fuel rail spacers to make the injectors fit, there would seem to be only one answer - you received the wrong injectors - since Post No. 32 of this thread established that the NA and NB injectors are the same length and interchangeable.

na and nb injectors are definately interchangable, but look at the nb deatsch injectors vs the pics of my na deatsch injectors and then look at the pics of the two on the website.

They are using different injectors for the na's vs nb's. I'm not sure why, but the nb deatsch injectors seem to have pintle caps where mine (na) do not. And mine are definately shorter than the ones you received when compared to the stock injectors.

With the small top spacers that I was sent originally the only way I could get them to seal properly was to completely remove the isolators that go under the fuel rail. Deatschwerks then sent me the longer top spacers and they still would not seal at the head. Pissed fuel everywhere! I then took my isolators and ground them down to half thickness. This has worked so far.

Travis, did the ones for your 94 have the pintle caps? I am curious as to if this is the difference between the injectors... Maybe the ones for the nb's that they are sending out are longer?...

I kind of figured thats what happened but I needed my car running at the time so in they went with out spacers.

I didn't need this thread to tell me NB injectors worked in an NA. I pulled a set of NB injectors out to put the 600s in. :)

We have been working with Norm and various other customers on their fitment problems. We prefer to service our customers on a case-by-case basis rather than posting up general info on a forum in hopes that it gets disseminated to everyone. I apologize if our lack of posting was mistaken as a lack of caring about our customers or our product.

Some of our NA injectors were built with the incorrect upper spacer thus making the injector fit too short. Some customers fixed this themselves and others contacted us for help. As far as I know everyone who contacted us has been taken care of. If this is not the case, and there is still someone out there who has unresolved issues, PLEASE call me and we will take care of you. Ask for me directly (david deatsch) 405-217-0701 or email me at david@deatschwerks.com. This is a simple issue with a simple fix.

DeatschWerks Miata injectors are 100% new and 100% drop-in fitment. Although they may look drastically different, when properly built, the NA, NB, and DW injectors have the same functional length (as norms post explained). If they do not fit something is wrong. Please check the following and call us if you need more help...
1. The DW injector should have a upper and a lower spacer installed on the injectors when you recieve them.
2. The DW upper spacer should be taller than the OEM spacer (8mm vs 5mm)
3. Make sure the OEM lower spacer is removed from the head/manifold before installing the new injectors.
4. Make sure you reinstall the plastic spacers that go between the fuel rail and head/manifold.
5. Once installed, the fit should be snug... not too loose and not too tight. 1/8" or so of vertical play is normal. Fuel pressure, not mechanical pressure is responsible for sealing the injector in the head/manifold.
6. DW injectors are designed to fit the stock/OEM set-up we cannot guarantee the correct fitment if anything has been altered or removed

I am going to post these guidelines in our vendor forum as well. I hope this clears things up.

Best Regards,
David Deatsch