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-   -   Changes to Boundary Oil Pump Line (https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-performance-56/changes-boundary-oil-pump-line-63094/)

TravisR 01-26-2012 11:16 AM

Changes to Boundary Oil Pump Line
 
Hello Everyone,

I have a couple of changes to the Miata Oil Pump Line that are coming VERY SOON!

1.) We will be discontinuing the sale of the standalone oil pump gears. This is for a couple of reasons.
  1. There are actually 4 sizes of oil pump gears and of the 4 different types it is near impossible to tell the difference between them without high precision tools.
  2. Inventory is a problem, we have at times upto 100 gears in stock at anyone time. Sometimes we run out of a particular type and we have to machine down gears for that particular style. This drives price up!
  3. Wear in stock housings can cause pump performance problems and short life. Determining the uneven wear of a housing is about 10X more difficult then determining if the gears fit. It truly requires some expertise to do, and there are no known written documents on what is acceptable and unacceptable

With a discontinuing of a product line, we're giving life to new one.

News item 2.) The introduction of the stock replacement billet oil pump!

I have not set a price point for this yet, but I'm shooting for mid to low 200. These pumps will be blue print assembled in the same way as the higher end oil pumps, but they will be a value option to those who simply want a stock replacement on their reasonably well built road racer.

You can expect the change to occur before the end of the month.

Thank you all for your continued support of Boundary and have a great day!

Travis Rosenbarger
Boundary Engineering

viperormiata 01-26-2012 11:44 AM

So the new billet pump comes with your spiffy billet gears already matched?

phillyb 01-26-2012 12:07 PM

for 225-250?
nice. i just bought an oem pump for like...135.
it would have been nice if this was available.

TravisR 01-26-2012 12:30 PM


Originally Posted by viperormiata (Post 826689)
So the new billet pump comes with your spiffy billet gears already matched?

Yup! No more questions about fitment or performance. You get a pump put together and ready to go with its own blueprinted sheet!


for 225-250?
nice. i just bought an oem pump for like...135.
it would have been nice if this was available.
Its been in negotiation, and ultimately we aren't done negotiating yet. This has only recently become available. I just wanted to let people know ahead of the change so they can plan their winter/spring builds. Sorry this didn't work out quite right for you.

Boost Joose 01-26-2012 12:39 PM

Travis, I've ben in contact with you about the gears I recently ordered and wanted to upgrade to the ful pump. Do I have this option or will I have to wait?

Thanks

Miater 01-26-2012 12:43 PM

:drool: This will go nice with my summer build.:x:

Preluding 01-26-2012 12:48 PM

Love the full pump option!!

I haven't regretted the decision buying mine once at all!

RyanLewo 01-26-2012 01:43 PM

This fits my needs perfectly. THANK YOU!

1FastMx5 01-26-2012 01:46 PM

Sounds like a win win for all....at a reasonable price.

Miater 01-26-2012 02:41 PM

Group buy introduction pricing? *Hint*

vehicular 01-26-2012 03:24 PM


Originally Posted by Miater (Post 826773)
Group buy introduction pricing? *Hint*

Yeah, that.

messiahx 01-26-2012 04:47 PM

Glad I saw this thread. I was going to buy gears this week, but I can definitely wait for next month. Sign me up!

mx5booster 01-26-2012 06:26 PM


Originally Posted by miater (Post 826773)
group buy introduction pricing? *hint*

+1

aaronc7 01-26-2012 10:19 PM

I'm about to order all engine parts soon as well.... I will get these 100%, hopefully I can get in on the first run of them or whatever.

bitrusty 01-27-2012 09:11 AM

Great news you wont be selling just the gears anymore!

At least if/when the next customer purchases one of these new complete pumps and it fails in a brand new built engine, you wont be able to worm your way out of any responsibility. Or at least not as easily lol

TravisR 01-27-2012 09:32 AM

2 Attachment(s)
I'm not really sure what your referring to here...

On the website it states this:
  • These gears are all individually inspected to meet factory specification in an oil pump housing. The gear sets are fully de-burred and pre-lapped. There should be no other steps required to install, but always check clearances in your housing to ensure proper operation.
  • In the Mazda Miata official shop rebuild manual which mechanics and engine builders should be following it says to check all clearances. (attached)
  • In addition to this as I have specified to the manufacturer, they are supposed to ship each set of gears with this very sheet in the package so you do not forget.

I don't know how I could be any more careful with telling people they are responsible for making sure their oil pump assemblies are going to actually pump oil. The reason we charge more for the oilpump assemblies we make is because we put the extra labor into them and control everything, there is no guess work. When you put on any of our built pump assemblies it functions, there are no extra steps.

My apologies if you or a friend had problems, but this is my ultimate solution. No more gear sets sold mean that there can be no liability or error.

2manyhobyz 01-29-2012 01:29 PM

Sounds Great
Do you expect to see pressure and flow increases in this blueprinted design over an oem stock one? If so, how much? How does this new pump compare to the upgrade options that you also offer?
Thanks

sixshooter 01-29-2012 05:08 PM


Originally Posted by bitrusty (Post 827089)
Great news you wont be selling just the gears anymore!

At least if/when the next customer purchases one of these new complete pumps and it fails in a brand new built engine, you wont be able to worm your way out of any responsibility. Or at least not as easily lol

Sandy vag for not bothering to do the work required on your end, bud? Micrometers and feeler gauges are usually pretty accurate devices if they ever make it out of the tool box, lol. Seems like there's not much to worry about if everything inspected is within tolerances... if you check the tolerances... if you check the tolerances... if you check the tolerances.

FatKao 01-31-2012 03:03 PM

Will the same pump work in VVT and non-VVT applications?

TravisR 01-31-2012 03:09 PM


Originally Posted by 2manyhobyz (Post 827846)
Sounds Great
Do you expect to see pressure and flow increases in this blueprinted design over an oem stock one? If so, how much? How does this new pump compare to the upgrade options that you also offer?
Thanks

No, there shouldn't be any significant increases in flow with this one. The tolerances are likely to be tighter and that may transfer into just a little bit more flow but not much. This pump is built to be bullet proof, and high value.


Will the same pump work in VVT and non-VVT applications?
I wouldn't run it in a VVT motor, you need more oil flow for that. Street Strip would be your best bet. I'm going to put a guide together on each pump today so its easier to choose!

Thanks!

Boost Joose 01-31-2012 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by FatKao (Post 828871)
Will the same pump work in VVT and non-VVT applications?

Yes

blindboxx2334 01-31-2012 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by TravisR (Post 826701)
Yup! No more questions about fitment or performance. You get a pump put together and ready to go with its own blueprinted sheet!

im a little confused what is the difference between this new pump and the street/strip assembly... will the new gears be able to handle boost? 300-400hp? thanks. and sign me up when you get em rolling. i planned on buying one of your pumps anyways!

TravisR 01-31-2012 04:18 PM

Pump Chart!
 
2 Attachment(s)
(Chart attached)

Gear Size Differences:

There are actually 3 different thicknesses of gears. (Street) 91.5-00, (Street/Strip) 01-05 thickness, and a custom boundary thickness (Race) that's even bigger.

Labor Differences
Porting/Honing/Machining/Shimming

Every pump varies in the actual work we put into it. I don't have the conclusive list here, but the race pump gets the most, and the street is a blueprinted stock housing with our billet gears inside. The Street/Strip is in-between.

Torque Guard
I coined the race pump to have "torque guard" because it produces a lot of additional pressure in the low RPM range. So if you're running a turbo or super with lots of mid to low end torque this will really add some extra protection to the bearings.

Seefo 01-31-2012 04:52 PM


Originally Posted by blindboxx2334 (Post 828878)
im a little confused what is the difference between this new pump and the street/strip assembly... will the new gears be able to handle boost? 300-400hp? thanks. and sign me up when you get em rolling. i planned on buying one of your pumps anyways!

its OEM spec. street/strip is (as mentioned before) made to flow more oil.

blindboxx2334 01-31-2012 05:32 PM

your post kinda confused me travis, sorry im an idiot... im going boost. atleast 300hp

can i buy this one or do i need the street/strip one? i just want to make sure i buy the right one..

fooger03 01-31-2012 06:18 PM

You need a better understanding of how oil pumps function, blind.

They will all handle 300hp quite nicely.

blindboxx2334 01-31-2012 07:13 PM

i know how they work, except for the shimming part (just havent looked into it yet)... im just trying to understand the differnce between the "street" pump and the "street/track" one... if i can get away with spending 250 vs 450 for no sacrifice. im all for it...

butttt since i see that the street one isnt shimable, im assuming i need the street/track one....?

TravisR 01-31-2012 07:14 PM


Originally Posted by blindboxx2334 (Post 828970)
your post kinda confused me travis, sorry im an idiot... im going boost. atleast 300hp

can i buy this one or do i need the street/strip one? i just want to make sure i buy the right one..

If you're not running an 01-05 VVT Engine I would get the street pump. I need to figure out a new naming convention for these... I think that is what is confusing people...

blindboxx2334 01-31-2012 07:15 PM


Originally Posted by TravisR (Post 829014)
I need to figure out a new naming convention for these... I think that is what is confusing people...

nail on the head.
sounds good! please let me know when the street one is available! i will purchase!

Seefo 01-31-2012 09:08 PM

^I don't want to confuse this even more, but I think Travis was trying to say Street/strip for 01-05 and street for the non-vvt and earlier.

At least that's what he has said before and that's whats in the "chart" above.

Look at it this way:
Street- OEM pressure, but higher durability
street/strip- Higher PSI
Race - Even higher PSI and Torque Guard (higher low RPM PSI).

Let me help Travis out with an embed:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...7&d=1328044413

fooger03 01-31-2012 09:09 PM

Street now = "Basic Flow" for high HP cars with standard oiling requirements

Strip now = "VVT Flow" for high HP cars with VVT or other high oiling requirements

Race now = "Superflow" for cars needing more oil pressure at lower RPMs and excessive oiling requirements.

BLAO!

ianferrell 01-31-2012 09:47 PM

I don't wanna whine, but I'm going to build a vvt motor and don't want to spend $420 on a pump... Any chance you could sell a 'street' quality vvt sized pump?

TravisR 01-31-2012 09:55 PM


Originally Posted by blindboxx2334 (Post 829015)
nail on the head.
sounds good! please let me know when the street one is available! i will purchase!

Sounds good!


^I don't want to confuse this even more, but I think Travis was trying to say Street/strip for 01-05 and street for the non-vvt and earlier.

At least that's what he has said before and that's whats in the "chart" above.

Look at it this way:
Street- OEM pressure, but higher durability
street/strip- Higher PSI
Race - Even higher PSI and Torque Guard (higher low RPM PSI).

Let me help Travis out with an embed:
Thanks!


I don't wanna whine, but I'm going to build a vvt motor and don't want to spend $420 on a pump... Any chance you could sell a 'street' quality vvt sized pump?
Unfortunately we can't. We can only get the castings in the Non-VVT size. So both of the higher end pumps have to go on the CNC machine for pump pocketing. Once the machinist has to turn the CNC machine on the cost has to go up.

messiahx 02-01-2012 09:53 PM

So...can we put together a group buy or at least can I get my name on a pre-order list?

aaronc7 02-01-2012 11:40 PM

same for me. about to order engine parts soon

blindboxx2334 02-02-2012 07:15 PM

in fo GB

TravisR 02-02-2012 10:39 PM

Still working on it, should have an answer by tomorrow or the day after on what I can do.

Thanks!

TravisR 02-03-2012 05:42 PM

Group buy posted, please see the group buy section!

https://www.miataturbo.net/showthrea...501#post830501

TURNS101 02-08-2012 04:57 PM

Left you message bossman. Call me. I building my radical 25-30 psi 2867 engine :) I need yo pump...

Landrew 02-08-2012 05:08 PM


Originally Posted by TravisR (Post 829072)
Sounds good!



Thanks!



Unfortunately we can't. We can only get the castings in the Non-VVT size. So both of the higher end pumps have to go on the CNC machine for pump pocketing. Once the machinist has to turn the CNC machine on the cost has to go up.

So the VVT guys have little options right now for a lower priced unit ? Where do you see the limits of the stock VVT pump in RPM and rough HP/TQ ratings. $420 is a huge percentage of the cost of setting up a built motor, and I have not convinced myself to go that way yet.

TravisR 02-08-2012 10:20 PM

4 Attachment(s)
From what I've seen, you don't want to go over 250whp or 7500 rpm on the stock pump. I know that is not the absolute limit, and some people have gotten lucky.

The real difference between the stock units and a forged unit is the amount of porosity in the stock unit. I have uploaded the picture. The thing that looks like a sponge is sintered steel. So if that sponge has any deformities it will break easily. If you've managed to get one that is "well done" then it should hold up ok.

If you look at the forged steel you'll notice the increase in density, no pores. If you weigh our gears and the stock gears ours are actually heavier despite being made out of materials that have the same density. This is one of the reasons the forged product is superior.

I can't tell you where the line is, but you'll find out quickly if you exceed the limits of the stock pump.

Travis

blindboxx2334 02-09-2012 06:24 PM

metallurgy ftw! thats some good close up pr0n

and sorry i never got in on the gb, im saving up for my turbo... but i will still buy one when it comes time to start buyin shitz for the block

TravisR 03-01-2012 12:50 AM

http://boundaryengineering.com/drupal/node/7 <- Product line has been officially changed!

http://boundaryengineering.com/drupal/node/130 <- New 1991.5-00 Billet Oil Pump Assembly!

a222133 04-20-2012 03:30 PM

Hi , do you have a group buy going at present on a 'stock replacement billit gear oil pump [1990.5 ] if yes can you sign me up . I can pay in advance if required !! and of course what is the price ? cheers max. maxspring@aapt.net.au


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