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Old 09-30-2009, 09:52 PM   #1
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Default Considering going forged (GEARHEADS GET IN HERE!!!)

Ok, so I have failed in finding a good junk yard short block. The few that I've found were complete pieces of crap that are useless. The only one in my area that I found to be good is being sold by a third party and they want stupid money for it.

Considering going forged.

Now I have been in contact with a few individuals about getting a motor built and after consideration I have decided the prices are WAY too much for me.
I want to build one on my own.
I want a mild build that will hold up to a little more than the stocker can handle while not molesting my wallet.

We checked the walls on my original block and they are good/smooth. We'll measure them tonight with a micrometer just to make sure they're not way out of spec. I'll be reusing the original block.

Considering doing this:
mild bore+hone - 80 at the local machine shop
belfab pistons+rods - 835
rings (if they're not included with the belfab kit - 100
gasket/seal set - 80
timing belt+water pump kit - 70
coolant re-route - 230
------------------------------
1395

What am I missing? More importantly what can I do with/without?
I considered main+rod bearings but if the stockers are ok why not reuse them. Considering headwork but I really don't need it. I don't need a full on race engine that is bomb proof. I need something that will reliably handle this hks gt2535 at about 15psi ~250-280hwp on pump gas and not melt pistons/bend rods.
-Car will not be revved higher than 7k.
-Not a track car in any way
-Dont need anything crazy, etc.



I've read through a lot of build threads by now. Seems as if there are only 2 categories: 1) full on 3k+ crazy builds replacing nearly EVERYTHING 2) super budget sub 1.5k builds replacing only pistons/rods

My father will be helping me build this. He's done a ton of engine builds over the past 20 years. I have done a few myself. I'm not a complete noob at engine assembly/building. I've put together the engine on my 2006 subaru WRX just 6 months ago, it still runs super strong and absolutely nothing wrong. So I guess I did it right

What do yall think?
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:57 PM   #2
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I don't see anything wrong with the parts used in your bottom end. I know I am going to source a 99 head at least. What type of bore are you talking about? Oil pump gears?
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:00 PM   #3
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Don't want oil pump gears unless I NEED them.
Stock bore is 83 as far as I know so I'm going for the 83.5 with 9.0 comp ratio.
I have the 00 head so no worries there. Don't really want to do anything to it since it already flows better then the others and I don't want to add unnecessary expenses to my budget build.


I only want to do the REQUIRED things that will work.
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:02 PM   #4
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Sure you don't want lower comp.? Hustler rocks it that way... I wouldn't listen to me too much. I will have you trying to build a race car.
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:03 PM   #5
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Get the gears man, you won't know you NEED them until they stockers break. Just get the bare gears. Slim chance they don't fit your stock housing.
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:10 PM   #6
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I understand that, but the question is: how often DO they break? I don't see too many threads with people that have broken oil pump gears. People upgrade them, but not too many threads with "Welp my engine blew due to oil pump gears failing".

The engine has 58k miles on it. Its kinda in a way still fresh. Or so my crazy *** thinks
If they're an absolute necessity I'll get them though.
Just don't want to rack up a 2k build bill ya know?
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:18 PM   #7
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Don't be penny-wise and pound-foolish. If you build it up, the minimum build you'll want to do is $2000-2500. Yes, I know you can do it less. But it's foolish.

Why on earth would you re-use bearings? Ugh. Where's your gasket kit? Your hardware? Balancing? Oil pump? It goes on and on. You're not getting away from the machine shop with an $80 tab.

Then, why on earth build an engine for 250 hp? Can't you find an escort motor for a couple hundred bucks? Who cares if it's not got compression like new. It's a couple hundred bucks. Run it until it blows, wash rinse repeat.
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:45 PM   #8
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Except there are only about 4 engines within 2 hours drive from my house. Went to every junk yard, they want minimum 400 for an old *** high mileage low compression short block. The pick-n-pulls have motors with less than 80 in at least one of the cylinders.
The one and only local that is selling a low mileage engine wants 1200 for it.

If I can find a cheap good condition short block within 2 hours drive from me I'll buy it yesterday.
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:51 PM   #9
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Ben beat me, but I always read the replies before posting. Re-use bearings? Especially rod bearings that aren't in the same rods? Definitely buy bearings. Drop the pistons if you have to.

I'm debating the same for the beater 99 if I don't go v8.

I'm thinking about using the block, crank and lower comp pistons from the 96, adding rods, rings, hone and slap it together and boost. This assumes the 99 head is still good. Maybe a mild head job while it is off.

If the head is bad, I'm back to square one. I really don't want to waste my spare 99 motor. I'm keeping that in case I screw up my current one. Well, unless you want to give me $1200 for it.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:00 PM   #10
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go here (car_part.com) to check inventory and pricing of local wreckers.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Ben beat me, but I always read the replies before posting. Re-use bearings? Especially rod bearings that aren't in the same rods? Definitely buy bearings. Drop the pistons if you have to.

I'm debating the same for the beater 99 if I don't go v8.

I'm thinking about using the block, crank and lower comp pistons from the 96, adding rods, rings, hone and slap it together and boost. This assumes the 99 head is still good. Maybe a mild head job while it is off.

If the head is bad, I'm back to square one. I really don't want to waste my spare 99 motor. I'm keeping that in case I screw up my current one. Well, unless you want to give me $1200 for it.
Reusing stock rod/main bearings is stupid, I just realized how stupid that is lol
So add another 100 for them from belfab.
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go here (car_part.com) to check inventory and pricing of local wreckers.
Checked that site already like 5 times. Closest thing its showing is 600 miles away.

Unless I'm doing something wrong. I'm searching for "engine block" since it doesn't have "short block". My area code is 95842. Anyone wanna give it a shot and see if they get better results?
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:22 PM   #12
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It found nothing within my state, don't feel bad.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Don't be penny-wise and pound-foolish. If you build it up, the minimum build you'll want to do is $2000-2500. Yes, I know you can do it less. But it's foolish.

Why on earth would you re-use bearings? Ugh. Where's your gasket kit? Your hardware? Balancing? Oil pump? It goes on and on. You're not getting away from the machine shop with an $80 tab.

Then, why on earth build an engine for 250 hp? Can't you find an escort motor for a couple hundred bucks? Who cares if it's not got compression like new. It's a couple hundred bucks. Run it until it blows, wash rinse repeat.
Kind of +1. At least on the bearings part. I don't see why you couldn't get away from the machine shop with an $80 bill. Mine was only like $60 and that was including the deck being machined and a hot tank. Looking at what you have, I would worry if you somehow spend less than $2000 on the total build.

My rebuild using stock rods and pistons (******* retarded on my part) ended up at probably $1300ish. I did everything right EXCEPT the rods and pistons, which would bring it up to around $2000. Oh and it took me like 5 or 6 times pulling the head to get it right, otherwise it was all right. If only everyone on stock bottom ends would have started breaking **** before I rebuilt it and not just after I got finished.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:39 PM   #14
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He's taking about boring out for OS pistons n junk. It ain't gonna be $80.

Don't search for engine block, dummy. Search for engine assembly. The whole thing. The normal junkyard doesn't want to deal with cracking the cyl head off the motor. They just want to get rid of the whole thing at once. You should find a slew of engines.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:41 PM   #15
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None for less than 800 or closer than 400 miles from me.
And I called and confirmed with the machine shop: 80 bux for bore+hone to whatever spec I want.


I'm not trying to make this hard. Seriously. If I can find a local short block or even long block for a reasonable price I'll buy it.
I'm not really crazy about going forged either. I'm perfectly happy with 250whp. I just don't see a cheap way of rebuilding.


So just to make it clear: there is just no ******* way in hell I would fit into the 1400 dollar budget is there?
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:46 PM   #16
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Search fail. There's at least a half dozen for $300 within 100 miles of your zip code.

I'm scared of the $80 overbore.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:46 PM   #17
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I would go forged myself. I have no confidence in my block holding up to anything over 200whp the way it is. Especially considering I was on the budget thing like you are trying to do, it wouldn't have cost THAT much more to have done it right and gone forged. Having spent all of that time rebuilding it, only to have cheaped out on the most critical parts. I actually would have felt better about it if I had paid more and had a shop do it to stock specs and had to go back in and add the rods and pistons. My time is worth more than my money. Might not be the same for you though. Do it right the first time, you will thank yourself I think.

I still don't see what is wrong with a sub $100 machine shop cost. It only requires them mounting the block and setting the machine. Most of my local shops only charge like $20 for a basic head machining and hot tank. A block bore shouldn't cost much more.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Search fail. There's at least a half dozen for $300 within 100 miles of your zip code.

I'm scared of the $80 overbore.
Ok you are right. I was searching for 99-00.
When I changed it to the older years there appears to be a couple more. I'll get to checking them out ASAP.

Thanx for pointing out my stupidity
I'll check em all out tomorrow.

Some of these places are like 10 miles from me yet I've NEVER heard of them And I'm no stranger to junk yards
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Drop the pistons if you have to.
Whatever you do, don't follow this advise, lolz.

I get sucked with all the talk he machine shops give me when I go in there. The thought of having my entire rotating assembly balanced within .1 grams makes me droll. I effed up my crank keyway and replaced it after the balance, and I'm pissed I didn't have it rebalanced, what a waste. If you can do it for $80, do it, just keep in mind this is not the stuff you can go back with more money later and do right. Pistons require pulling the engine. Rods require pulling the engine. Oil pump gears require pulling the engine. See the pattern?
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:19 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Whatever you do, don't follow this advise, lolz.
Why not? There are a lot of people with forged rods and stock pistons. Rods are the weak point. That said, if he has to bore, it's a moot point anyway.
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