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Old 10-01-2009, 12:20 AM   #21
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Because he melted his #4 piston.
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:41 AM   #22
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Quote:
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Because he melted his #4 piston.
forged pistons melt too. holmes needs a better tune and stock pistons are fine.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:10 AM   #23
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You got all that nice **** get a set of gears for the oil pump while you are at it the extra peice of mind is just as important as the coolant reroute.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:45 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Considering doing this:
mild bore+hone - 80 at the local machine shop
belfab pistons+rods - 835
rings (if they're not included with the belfab kit - 100
gasket/seal set - 80
timing belt+water pump kit - 70
coolant re-route - 230
------------------------------
1395

What am I missing?

Bore/hone for $80 scares me, but maybe you know the guy. My shop did crank micropolishing, +1mm bore, hone, checked the head and decked, microfluxed and hot-tanked the block, for $200, and I felt like I got a damn good deal out of it.

Belfab pistons/rods, I've heard a couple of horror stories about Belfab recently. Get the rods from M-Tuned and see if you can buy the Supertechs from 949Racing or direct from Supertech or something. The pistons come with rings and pins. Belfab makes good products, but his customer service seems to be a little lackluster, so if you can avoid him while still getting the products he sells, that's a win-win in my book.

Gaskets and seals, I have mixed feelings about doing an eBay kit even though folks have had good luck - I think I ended up into Mazda for around $250 including my HG, timing belt and water pump, and I have the peace of mind knowing that every seal in the motor is brand new OEM.

I think I paid $100 shipped for bearings on eBay, ACL Races. If I had had more time I would have looked for some Calico-coated bearings, but I was crunched so I ordered the ACLs and they worked out.

Do the oil pump gears. It's $160, they are a ***** to do later and EASY to do now, and if you ever decide to jump to a potato or a 30R or something it won't be on your mind.

I did ARP head studs, totally unnecessary except I had my first HG leak upon startup and I didn't feel like doing it again.

I think I ended up $1700 into it including the second head gasket and shipping on everything. Like you, I didn't pay for assembly, though. Motor has been flawless - just compression tested it last week, dead cold, 170-165-165-175.

If I had been given more money? I would have been choosing between a knife-edged crank ($500) or a little headwork for the same money. I probably would have done the crank, since headwork is a lot easier to do later on down the road. Castillo's Cranks in LA can get 7+lbs out of our cranks for $500 - think about what a lightweight flywheel costs, and that is a pretty good price.
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:07 AM   #25
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WOWW. That is a lot of info to consider. Thanx guys. I am going to be doing more research now that I'm hearing all these suggestions. I'm still looking for a stock short block to drop in, but that doesn't mean that I won't be going forged in future. If I don't build now I will build later, when the money is not so tight. Therefore this thread is very useful and we should keep the discussion going.

I got my answer pretty much though: I won't fit into the 1400 budget any way I want to spin this. It just isn't realistic.
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:15 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
forged pistons melt too. holmes needs a better tune and stock pistons are fine.
Funny thing about that is that I'm actually running your map settings, with afr's set to low 14's in cruise (in reality they fluctuate between low 13's and low 14's), and very low 11's in boost. Never does it spike to anything over 11.5 in boost.
As for the timing I was running the base map timing from Travis. I've since (since melting piston) have had a few people take a look at it and say its a shitty *** timing map that was probably the reason I melted the piston in the first place.
Another thing is that the car was not cooling very well. If I would get on it a few times in a row, the coolant temps would go all the way up to 115-120* C. Then I got the upper radiator shrowd and got the fans to come on together at the same time and got the temps to not exceed 105-110* C after hard driving. Normal driving would usually be about 90-100* C.

So I think I BADLY needed a coolant reroute. The shitty timing + the poor cooling as well as the engine being in poor health to begin with is what my best estimate is of why it did what it did.

I'm looking to address all these issues as soon as I put it back together. Whether its forged or stock shortblock, my cooling system is in need of MASSIVE improvement and my shitty *** timing map needs to be completely redone.

Here it is for anyone that wants to check it out:


Tell me what you think.
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:17 PM   #27
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Fantastic thread. I am definitely going forged pistons/rods this winter, and will be doing the oversized valves and light head work at the same time. Anyone deal with Belfab on their HP kit, it has everything with one stop shopping? I've heard of the service issues with them, though. Would 100% rather deal with Emilio, but then I'll have to piecemeal the gasket kit and misc stuff.
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:59 PM   #28
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A little late on this, but on the car-part.com search, you want to search "engine." Remember these guys manage junkyards they aren't going to spend a ton of time breaking down an engine to very specific parts in a database. Do the search for the Escort/Protege/Sephia/Tracer and you will certainly find some close by. You could also find a really good deal on a $300 engine and ship it if it's too far away. Yeah, you may get a ton of extra stuff on a complete engine, but that's usually not a big deal.
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Old 10-02-2009, 06:34 PM   #29
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I just finished my motor and I think I was about in the same boat. I spun a bearing (turns out even turbo engines need oil...) and I wanted a little stronger without going overboard.

Here's what I did:
M-Tuned Rods - $320
All lower end bearings - $115
Machine crank - $80
New rings - $100
DIY Flew hone - $40 (worked like a charm)
New head gasket/valve seals $30 (part of a gasket kit I bought forever ago)

Should start it back up for the first time in a couple months tomorrow. Time will tell if it works, but I didn't see the need to drop 4 times the money when this should hold my power goals just fine.

Last edited by Cpt_Slow; 10-02-2009 at 06:36 PM. Reason: add machining $
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Old 10-02-2009, 07:24 PM   #30
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I can't really put my finger on why #4 detonated. Have you done an injector service, maybe #4 was lean.

Treat your engine like an investment, if you don't have a car payment.

I have a factory oil pump because they weren't affordable when I built my motor. I think you can run the stock pump on the street below 300whp.

Also, you want low compression.
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:05 PM   #31
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I may have found a 98 JDM protege motor for 400. Going tomorrow to check it out.
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Old 10-04-2009, 02:52 AM   #32
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I dont know about the protege, but i remember reading a thread on jdm miata motors being different compression. Higher.
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Old 10-04-2009, 03:15 AM   #33
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wat kinda afr in cruise?
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