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Cracked Flat Top Intake Manifold
8 Attachment(s)
Hi Gents,
I have cracked my Flat Top Intake manifold on the corner closest to throttle body. I think I may have reversed the Hondata Teflon gasket. Regardless as soon as torqued it down to 18 ft-lbs, it cracked. You can see the pictures. Any suggestions on how to fix it? Thanks. |
A welder
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How soft it that spacer? It looks deformed from compression. Looks like less torque is needed when using it.
Weld it up while bolted up to a flat plate, then check the flange for flatness. |
Originally Posted by 99mx5
(Post 1274159)
Are you using the intake manifold brace?
I was thinking what could cause that to happen. - over-torqued bolts - soft heat-isolation spacer - no manifold brace - combination of the above coupled with engine vibration Bad torque wrench? Something stuck underneath it? |
Yeah, I realized it then changed my post. You beat me to it.
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2 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by aidandj
(Post 1274160)
He cracked it torquing it down.
Bad torque wrench? Something stuck underneath it? |
Why are you using one of those gaskets in the first place?
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1274209)
Why are you using one of those gaskets in the first place?
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Originally Posted by orlmiata
(Post 1274210)
The believe is that it helps prevent heat transfer from the head to the intake manifold. How true or how much difference it makes, I am not sure.
Take your IM and a scrap cylinder head to a competent welder. Bolt it down and weld it back up, then throw that silly phenolic spacer away. |
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I put one of those gaskets on my wife's RSX several years ago and tested the temps before and after. The gasket definitely makes a difference in IM temps and while that may not show significant gains I can't imagine it's hurting anything. Added bonus on a miata, it gives you another 1/4" or so of room to get your rerouted coolant return past your intake piping.
I don't know if they're worth running out to buy, but I certainly wouldn't throw it away if you already have one. Hondata IMG temp variations Not sure if anyone has done this before, but I figured I'd post up my results. I took some before and after temperature readings from the intake manifold to see how the gasket would affect manifold temps. All tests were done mid-day in south FL, similarly hot as hell for all 4 tests (2 before, 2 after) on a type S with only raceheader, no other mods. Along with the gasket I rerouted the coolant lines to the throttle-body as described in hondata's instructions with the gasket. Temperatures were taken from 3 points that were marked on the manifold and taken with a infra-red temperature gun. Sample points are seen below: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1444655265 Before temperatures: Point 1: 157, 159 Point 2: 138, 140 Point 3: 137, 137 After temperatures: Point 1: 144, 146 Point 2: 132, 133 Point 3: 131, 131 Temperatures close to the head were down 11-13 degrees. Farther away from the manifold temperatures are less drastic (as expected), 6-7 degrees. The test made me curious what kind of difference would be seen where the manifold mates to the head, I'd expect an even wider margin in the results there. |
Originally Posted by pdexta
(Post 1274280)
I put one of those gaskets on my wife's RSX several years ago and tested the temps before and after. The gasket definitely makes a difference in IM temps and while that may not show significant gains I can't imagine it's hurting anything.
This thread is about a guy who cracked an ear off his $600 Squaretop while trying to install one of these gaskets, so I'm pretty sure he hurt something. :party: |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1274308)
This thread is about a guy who cracked an ear off his $600 Squaretop while trying to install one of these gaskets, so I'm pretty sure he hurt something. :party:
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Originally Posted by orlmiata
(Post 1274120)
Hi Gents,
I have cracked my Flat Top Intake manifold on the corner closest to throttle body. I think I may have reversed the Hondata Teflon gasket. Regardless as soon as torqued it down to 18 ft-lbs, it cracked. You can see the pictures. Any suggestions on how to fix it? Thanks. |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1274308)
The temperature of the manifold is irrelevant. What matters is the temperature of the air entering the engine. The air entering the engine is traveling very quickly, and most of it never comes in contact with the intake manifold in the first place. Reducing the intake manifold's temperature will have virtually no effect on the temperature of the air entering the engine. The "gains", if any, would be virtually impossible to measure.
This thread is about a guy who cracked an ear off his $600 Squaretop while trying to install one of these gaskets, so I'm pretty sure he hurt something. :party: |
Originally Posted by Stealth97
(Post 1274553)
I must respectfully disagree. I run a similar but thinner gasket, and the manifold stays cool to the touch. We sat 3 ice cubes on the manifold once, it was worth 3 hp on the dyno on a 90+ degree day.
I'm sure you knew that and did multiple back to back testing to disprove this......................................right? |
I've been running a squaretop with one of those gaskets for years now. Is this a reliability issue?
The manifold is off the head for now but I'm wondering if I should just omit it when I reassemble everything. Also, besides the reliability improvement (ie, the broken tb issue), are there any other real upsides to doing the skunk2 throttle on a squaretop and porting the intake to match? I mean, if I'm running 18 psi of boost measured at the intake manifold, won't I just be reducing the pressure ratio further up the line (ie, less restriction for the compressor to push against to make that level of manifold pressure)? |
If the throttle body is a restriction then yes it would help. Most people do it for reliability.
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AIUI, the throttle body's flow is not a major restriction for a turbo because you're compressing the air before it flows through it. It is a lot more significant on a positive displacement supercharger where you have to suck a larger volume of lower pressure air through it.
--Ian |
Still a restriction. Probably not an issue for the amount if air a Miata flows. But still a restriction.
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