Eagle rod users come in
 

I just got off the phone with my engine builder and he informed me that he is having trouble getting the wrist pins (weisco) in the rods. They slide in easily/smoothly into the stock rods but with the Eagle rods they slide in half way and then if he wanted to get them in all the way he would half to press them in. He has used belfab and Carillo in the past and never had this issue. Is there something wrong with this set of rods or is this how the Eagle rods are?
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Some rods have to be put in a rod "heater" which heats the rod causing it to expand so that the wrist pin can slide in and out easily. Then once cool the pin is locked in the rod.

Did he heat the ends of the rods prior to insertion of the wrist pins?

edit- CJ beat me.

Even with a full floating piston and rod setup? Seems like they would be extremely tight once it cools down.
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Ed Zachary.

I've done a bunch of reading and found that some people have had to actually hone the small end for the pin to fit smoothly. I read that some have used a brake cylinder hone to do it. Anyone ever heard of this?
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Let me put this bluntly, keep in mind I'm completely serious. If your engine builder did not know that he needed to hone the small end to fit the wrist pin then you need to go pick up everything you dropped off with him for your build and bring it to another COMPETENT machine shop that specializes in engine work. Specifically a shop with import engine experience.

The miata has a floating wrist pin. It is not like the interference fit, of say, a honda rod. You should not have to heat up the small end at all. It should be honed to fit. The rod should have come with a spec sheet for clearances and I would venture a guess at 0.001-0.0015" is what it recommends.

Thanks for your help man.
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Holy shit. Yeah, go pick up all your parts and take them to someone that knows what they're doing.

The rod end needs to be honed to fit the wrist pin.

I'm more than a little concerened about the outcome of this.

Thanks everyone, I'll update ya once I talk to him.
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The eagle rod has a bronze bushing that sometimes needs to be honed. Don't heat the rod...... if you heat the rod your expanding the molecules of the metal there for making it weaker. Also make sure is the rite rod for the app.

lol man u guys are funny ........ im the engine builder.... ive built plenty of engines. i know what im doing its my job.... im sorry we don't use cheap products where u have to modify the brass insert in the rod... the head tech in my shop that use to work for mecha chrome (engine builder for f1 renault) said on a full floating wrist pin set up everything should go threw smooth and tight.. talk to a friend also the works for dinan bmw (bmw daytona prototype engine builder) and said the same... ive build 3 other miata engines including my own and never had this problem. my engine uses carillo and the other belfab and the wrist pins went in smooth. and these engine have been running for 5 to 6 months 20lbs of boost in extreme conditions. we dont use eagle rods on our race engines, but never had this problem with other companies... i just let phil know what was the deal. i know u could bore it out but its going to cost money for my machinist to do it. and i was letting phil know.
i dont know why im replying to this crap. everyone just talks alot of shit and dont even know what the talking about..
if anyone want to dispute with me pm me ill give my # and u tell me other wise

im out
sebastien
ansamotorsports.com

Hahahahahahahaha. We've been down the road before where someone posted about engine work and people suggested he pick up his shit and take it else where, and then YOU came in and said you're the machinist! This is hilarious! Hahahaha.

Its just a problem of fit. Somethings have to be ground to spec if they arn't manufactured under very high standards, or in the case where the sigma is on opposite ends of the spectrum (one ran tight and one ran loose from the manufacturer.) In either case its your job to make the rod go in the hole, man up. :giggle:

im not the machinist and never said i was........ and thats fine i will get the rod bored.... and it would be the machinist job to make it fit.. w/e im done you guys are forum talkers... just tryin to start shit..

No, he's asked for advise. So he's got it. If the guy building his engine is not competent at what's he's doing, then the OP needs to find another engine builder. I assumed that since you're an engine builder, you're also a machinist. How could you not be? It's like part of the process. The machinist will hone the small end as it's probably within one thousandth already. Just because the parts are not on size doesn't mean they're "crap". Some better rods are made to be slightly under size so that they can be machined to exacting tolerances by a knowledgeable engine builder/machinist. Rather be a thousand under size and hone it to exact spec than be half a thousandth out and be fucked. Rod manufacturers can not control the QC in all the different piston manufacturers. So it's common to see parts machined "close" and then left up to the competent engine builder to spec everything out.

I'm pretty sure you should grind or hone, and not bore something like that. Generally when you are maneuvering a few or even a single thou you abrade, not cut. A cutter head of a boring tool will be a bit too violent for that little of material. Plus at that amount of accuracy you almost have to grind, and check until you get it right. Even a drill bit will miss by a thousandth, and that is considering you can get it 100% concentric so the bit doesn’t walk. You really have no idea what you are talking about do you?

splittinghairs.jpg

In my eyes, if you aren't a machinist, then you damn sure aren't an engine builder. You're just somebody that can turn a wrench. Building engines takes a lot of knowledge (both book smarts and real world experience), accurate measuring devices you know how to use properly, well kept lathes/mills/surface grinders/etc, and a competent machinist that understand how to use them. It's knowing both sides that makes you good. If you are a machinist that doesn't build engines, then you won't know which side to error to on tolerances, or how crucial surface finish is on certain parts, or a million other things. It takes A LOT to be good. levnuhbin, I'd take my engine elsewhere if I were you.

Not trying to get off topic, but I hope English isn't your first language, cause it's pretty bad and the grammar is pathetic. If it's not your first language though, then no hard feelings.

Id like a mod to kill this thread please. I got the answer I was looking for and your guys much appreciated opinions but now its turning into personal attacks and I dont agree with that considering none of really know eathother from a hole in the wall.
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I agree with levnubhin close or delete this thread...the old lynch mob mentality at work.

Cut the engine builder some slack.

Tony

Its actually just two guys arguing with the engine builder. Not exactly lynch mob.

Well, If you spent 3 grand on forged internals, gaskets, seals, machining, etc, and then your engine blew up in a week, you'd be pissed, no? If you don't like doing shit twice, I'd find another machinist.

i know that if my "built" mtoor died, I'd "cut the engine builder some slack." lol

Beat him with his own broken piston. ;) I've got some 302 pistons in the garage, those things could do damage.

What engine has blown?

The guy wasn't sure about something and at least he had the humility to ask a question since he wasn't familiar with the rods.

What is wrong with that?


Tony

Are you serious? If this guy didn't know that rods are typically made a hair undersize so they can be honed to spec, it sure makes me wonder what other important things he doesn't know. I mean after all, he's an engine builder by profession. He should know his shit. It's kinda like hearing your doctor ask the nurse how to check the your pulse. Doesn't exactly instill confidence in the surgery he's about to perform on you.

You have the reading comprehension of a monkey.

We never even were getting on levnubhin about asking a question about rods. We were simply saying and still saying that if a competent engine builder does not spec clearances on the small end of a rod with a floating wrist pin, then he needs to take his stuff to someone else.

The engine builder himself has come in here stated what I can only derive as testing for a "smooth" fit. I don't care how smooth a wrist pin fits, it needs to be measured to see if it is in spec, proper roundness, and proper taper, PERIOD. It might fit in smoothly with 0.0001" of clearance but that is not enough. On the flip side it will fit smoothly with 0.0030" but that is too much. Both will cause damage in the long term.

Having to hone the small end of a rod is a common thing in building a motor. Having an engine builder that has never done it scares me. I've always had it checked on my builds and I always give my machinist an exact list of clearances that I want for every part of my motor.

If all else fails there is nothing like personal attacks.


Tony

You're just proving his point. In the very post you just quoted he explained his criticism.

You're on the wrong forum.

This is probably a dumb question, but does the big end of the rod have to be honed as well?

It needs to be checked to see if its in spec, in not then it absolutely needs to be honed.

This sucks, I was planning to build a motor myself this spring. If you have to do all that crap. I don't have the machinery to do that.

I need nut and bolt crap. Something inspected before it leaves the factory. Which rods, piston and bearing kit do I need to look for?

No. It's a lot more complicated than that. If you don't know how to build engines, pay someone that does to do it for you.

I have rebuilt a 350 and helped with another. As long as you take your motor to a machine shop and let them machine it all, and tell you the specs to order, it isn't so bad.

But just ordering random parts for a used crank, and not getting specs would be stupid.:)

If your already paying a machine shop to do all the machine work, I'd give them an extra couple hundred to fully assemble the short block. A lot of parts have to be test fitted to check clearances anyway. It would be dumb to have them do all the work and not put it together. If you want to put it together, fine. But you better have the right measuring equipment and know how to verify everything is right. It's more than turning bolts to say the least.